I don't know at the moment but if the FAI and the Genesis people produce a report that states that the LoI is strategically important to football in Ireland then I'd like to know in what way. I know I should direct the question to the FAI but they don't reply to my emails. I just think that it's all too easy to use such expressions as 'strategically important' without actually justifying it. I still haven't heard a credible reason except for the FIFA rule. That's a technicality rather than strategic.Originally Posted by Mr A
Technology ain't what it used to be
I don't mean to be pedantic Dodge and I'm not trying to put anyone on the defensive but I don't believe that the majority of people who play, follow or are involved with football in Ireland would agree that the LoI is strategically important to Irish football. If I'm missing something then please tell me.
Technology ain't what it used to be
The report is one of the worst I have ever come across. The Genesis people got their money very easy for that one. The point is; I HAVE read the report and I couldn't see how they could sustain the quote that I used in my original post. To me it seems to be a case of the Emperors clothes. I cannot see any objective rationale for the quote. Sorry
Technology ain't what it used to be
I'm not sure whether anyone has mentioned this before, but the highest level of football (and attendance) in the jurisdiction would indicate a certain strategic value.
You can't have a football pyramid without a tip.
Unless you don't want a pyramid.. which seems to be the point here.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
If we scrapped the LOI, schoolboy football would get more money and have no competition for their schoolboy-export business.
Anyway, if we want one of those auld "pyramid tips", sure isn't Engand only across the water?
Last edited by stovelid; 22/02/2010 at 4:40 PM.
While we are here, they'll never die.
Well actually that is a pertinent point. My guess is that there are very very few young players that aspire to play football in the League of Ireland. The vast majority want to play for one of the big English teams so for them that's where the pyramid does peak.
Technology ain't what it used to be
Soccer Mom, it can never be explained and despite the lack of clarity in Genesis, the LOI provides the following.
1. A level for domestic players to aspire to.
2. A outlet for players who are a) late developers, b) not lucky enough to have made it at a higher level, c) competent at the highest domestic level and due to work/personal/family circumstances unwilling to travel abroad.
3. In it's strictest application rungs (PD,1D,AC) for young local players to progress through.
4. A means of generating sporting interest locally.
Now, in a pure financial sense it is a self-propelling model, to a degree. Players in the LOI are not sending their tens of thousands to offshore accounts, their pay packets are insufficient for this.
a) The wages are spent locally, thus repaying the local economy.
b) The running of clubs provides employment for players, backroom and other anciliary staff.
c) Transfer fees generated by sales of players related to the league are almost entirely inward - rarely do LOI clubs pay foreign clubs for players.
d) The tax take generated on the LOI has never been published (to my knowledge) but it should be decent enough.
e) Impressive performances in Europe raise the level of expectation in Irish football and the profile of the domestic game.
Without a LOI there would be a drop off in interest in football in Ireland, a skewing in funds circulating in areas where clubs are located and remove an outlet for footballers in in our country. Thus it is of strategic interest to maintain the LOI.
Bear in mind clubs pay close on half a million between them to enter the league.
Sure let's give up everything bar the Premiership so, shall we?
There are enough players who want to play in the LoI to keep it going. The fact that even the bottom LoI sides have decent - I think mostly positive - records against non-league sides in Cup competitions indicates that the LoI caters for the top players in the country.
Well, no. Young Kian and Jordan still need a schoolboy club to play in until they get to their teens. Somewhere the SUV can get to conveniently.
Then they can support the real league over in England like mum and dad.
Only trouble is the LOI - sitting there unfashionably, refusing to die and hoovering up money that could be going to the schoolboy district leagues. Or worse still, trying to muscle in on the schoolboy export/cottage industry/conveyor belt to England.
While we are here, they'll never die.
To pretty much everyone on this forum, the League of Ireland IS football in Ireland. Everything else is just a sideshow.
Does that make it a truncated square pyramid??? I'll let a UCD fan answer that one.
Thank for that considered reply weecounytryman. I appreciate that.
I don't agree with all the points that you make but then I presume that's what this forum is forOf course I see strategic value in having a national football league but in my opinion the League of Ireland is not as strategically important at the moment (or back in 2005) as Genesis would have us believe.
Here are some of the objectives that were set back in 2005:
*) Increase the average attendances at League of Ireland matches from 1,882 to 4,000 / 5,000
*) Have successful clubs in all major population centres
*) Have League clubs competing in the Champions League group stages
*) All clubs to adhere to licensing requirements
If the FAI ever achieve these objectives then maybe the LoI will have reached a substantial strategic importance.
Last edited by Soccer Mom; 22/02/2010 at 5:12 PM. Reason: fixing a typo
Technology ain't what it used to be
A prism would be my guess.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Your whole perspective is quite entertaining because it is firmly rooted in an absolute barstooler perspective.
The LoI is the pinnacle of football in Ireland whether you are willing to accept that or not.
It is therefore the most important and strategic aspect of football in Ireland.
Football clubs maintain football in a country, not national teams.
Your whole perspective is warped by some kind of Premiership outlook.
The LoI is without question the highest rung of the ladder for football in Ireland, it might not be shiney and fashionable like the Premiership or Merchandise United but it is what it is, the pinnacle of football in this country.
Thats why it is of strategic importance to Ireland.
Without Irish Players playing at such a high level in Ireland the standard of football in Ireland would drop significantly.
Like I said clubs maintain the football in a country, not the national team thus the National League is infinetly more important than the National Team.
Maybe if we could cut out the middle men, football could be so much better. It would just be big international teams, and clubs. What need for a League of Ireland, or a league of Wales - they really don't get the huge numbers that the more popular and therefore better clubs do. Indeed, what need a Championship in England. And really, look at how many people over the years have been picked up by clubs without ever having played more than a few games at underage level, anyone who is any good at the age of 14 could be sent to England, or maybe Scotland if they are ugly.
Really, though outside of England, Italy and Spain, maaaayyyyyyybbbeee Germany, what good are any of the other leagues. In fairness, there is a club here and there, like maybe St. Petersberg that are ok. Even within those leagues, there is a lot of dross. Who honestly cares about Real Betis v Recreativo? 40,000 people you might say? Proportionately speaking, that is nothing in Spain, about the same as the 3-4,000 who turned up for Munster Derbies. Cut these nobodies, and you can stream it into maybe 4 teams in Spain, 6 (or 8 if you include Scotland) in England, three maybe in Germany (I'm killing myself with generosity on this), five in Italy. That gives us 20, enough for one super duper Euro league. The rich clubs want it. The rich administrators want it. The rich TV stations want it. Let's have it.
When we are at it, then, we should certainly do away with the Junior clubs: what point is there in having guys who clearly cannot play top level football playing at all; it is an embarrassment. Besides, when they get to the top of their game, if they have passed, say, 20, they really are not going to develop if they are not playing for a better side than the local junior team, so why bother if they have not made it already - they have no chance of making it.
Most of those junior sides are even worse than those woeful no-hoper teams like Albania, or the Faroes, or Belgium these days. Granted Belgium used be good once, but they missed their chance, and seriously, they are never going to win the world cup. I mean to ask, is there any purpose in watching someone who really has no hope of doing winning. Do they serve any purpose but to be footballing fodder. Uruguay might have won it once, but that was almost 100 years ago, and what have they done since? Diddly-squat, that's what. They are not good enough to be playing at the top level, and we should eliminate them from it too. We really should eliminate any side that has failed to make the semi finals of a major championships (obviously not Asian, North American, or African) in, say, 8 years? It would be better too, reduce the number of meaningless qualifiers too, it would. That should give us perhaps 16 teams? Nice numbers for a World Cup every 2 years rather than 4. The managers of the big clubs will be grateful.
Yes I like this, it is streamlining football. Sky will go crazy for this.
That question was less stupid, though you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Help me, Arthur Murphy, you're my only hope!
Genesis was strange, in that it gave lots of aims but the actual on the ground infrastructure wasn't really ready. Raising attendances is not an aim unless the quality of the match day experience, and by extension atmosphere, and facilities are dealt with first of all then there is no hope, no matter when Dundalk win the Europa League!Thank for that considered reply weecounytryman. I appreciate that.
I don't agree with all the points that you make but then I presume that's what this forum is for
Here are some of the objectives that were set back in 2005:
*) Increase the average attendances at League of Ireland matches from 1,882 to 4,000 / 5,000
*) Have successful clubs in all major population centres
*) Have League clubs competing in the Champions League group stages
*) All clubs to adhere to licensing requirements
If the FAI ever achieve these objectives then maybe the LoI will have reached a substantial strategic importance.
Getting into the Champions League group stage is always going to be the impossible dream, and reaching the 1st proper knockout round of both CL and EL should be the priority to bring more cash into the league and attract a better class of players in/home. The league was never given it's full importance by the FAI and nor will it ever be, imo.
Surely you don't need a reason to see why it's important apart from the passion you've seen on this thread when you questioned the validity of the league. It's a major part of life for a lot of people around the country, and that in itself is enough to justify its existence.
Dodge's biannual rant moved here. Now shut up the rest of ye and either answer the question or ignore it.
The League of Ireland IS Irish football. It is the top rung of football with players that play IN Ireland week in week out.
Obviously I'd prefer if people answered, rather than ignored, the question but thanks for the air-clearing dahamsta.
Technology ain't what it used to be
I presume you would agree that is just one view. And clearly it's not the majority view. I've been doing a little bit of research on football in Ireland and it is clear to me that Irish football, in all it's facets, is in need of a really radical overhaul. The problem is, as this thread clearly demonstrates, there are many views of what football is in Ireland. Personally I believe that, as in all sports, our athletes should aspire to represent Ireland at the very highest level. Therefore football in Ireland should be, first and foremost, about the national team. That's where the IRFU got things so right (I realise the current rugby situation could be a flash in the pan) when the professional era dawned. Admittedly they had the option of the Celtic League and the Heineken Cup as a platform for a reduced number of top flight Irish clubs. But what they did was to make the national team pre-eminent. The provinces and the clubs defer to the needs of the national team.
That doesn't mean that I am advocating the demise of the League of Ireland but I do believe that it should adopt full amateur status. Whether we like it or not there simply is not the support for a professional league. This has been proven time and time again and the current difficulties just underscore that. League of Ireland clubs need to look back into, and cater to, their local communities. The GAA do this very successfully and money that comes through the gate goes back into constantly regenerating the game.
Technology ain't what it used to be
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks