Can Derry City join the LoI?

[garyderry]

What happens if the FAI give the new Derry a licence and the clubs in the Republic object?

Who in the 1st division is really going to object????

[OneRedArmy]

What happens if the FAI give the new Derry a licence and the clubs in the Republic object?

The FAI will point to the Participation Agreement which gave the FAI (and in relation to licensing the First Instance Committee) sole powers to consider applications for membership.

Surely this is a non-issue unless any of the parties want to make it one (the parties being only the IFA, FAI, Derry City and UEFA at a push). UNless I missed something, nobody has posted anything at all indicating that ANY of those parties were unhappy or wanted anything other than Derry City to remain in the LoI. Until someone can produce something concrete, this whole discussion is redundant interweb conspiracy theory at its finest.

Which reminds me, where has Ealing Green gone?

[Celdrog]

Who in the 1st division is really going to object????

Shelbourne?

If the clubs object are Derry stuck in the North? Hint - try not to answer with a question..
Even hypothetically...

Going on the Derry lads arguement, a team from South Armagh could be formed and decide to play in the Republic without the IFA or UEFA having to give dispensation. I cannot see that.

[Acornvilla]

if the clubs in the 1st object it makes sence that they will be in the 'A' Championship?

[EalingGreen]

Passerby - you've misssed the whole point here.

We don't need any approval from the IFA to play in the LOI.

All we need from the IFA is to be members of them, as clubs have to be registered within their own footballing jurisdiction. And the IFA won't be able to deny us membership - or certainly not on spurious grounds like attempting to stop us form playing in another league. If any two-bit local pub team that meets the basic footballing criteria is granted IFA membership, they'd need a pretty damn good reason to deny it to us even if they wanted to..

So the IFA role in all of this is completely incidental.

Well, you've made some progress in recognising that there are two aspects to the IFA's involvement, rather than one, I'll give you that.

For assuming* you are correct that the IFA cannot prevent DCFC2010 from playing in the LOI if the FAI is prepared to have them, DCFC2010 still need to be members of their own local Association (IFA). This is why, for instance, Cardiff City and Swansea City are both members of the FAW, despite playing in the English Football League.

Imo, this latter aspect is one of the key issues which DCFC2010 will have to resolve if they are to get organised in time for the new LOI season.

Of course, you automatically deem any IFA objections to granting DCFC2010 Membership "spurious" (no surprise there, then), but they are actually rather more serious and responsible than that.

If you go back to the time when Coleraine (effectively) went bust, a "new" Coleraine formed and was able to take the place of the old club in the IL, since there was no actual rule in place to prevent this happening.

Consequently, the IFA moved to rectify this deficiency in the rulebook. Which brings us back to DCFC. In ordinary circumstances, should some "pub team" organise and apply to join the IFA, the IFA would have no obvious reasons for objecting.

However, DCFC2010 are no ordinary "pub team"; the pub from which they hope to operate is the same one whose former team folded last season, owing thousands of pounds to at least two existing IFA Members (Swifts and LFC) and seemingly a third (C'ville).

Therefore imo the IFA are morally and (I assume) legally within their rights to decline DCFC2010's application for IFA Membership, until their existing Members are satisfied financially.

Of course, I say that this is an "assumption", since I do not have access to the relevant Rulebook, or knowledge of exactly what correspondance may have passed between DCFC2010 and the IFA etc.

However, it has been widely reported and accepted by the more reasonable DCFC fans (at least) that the FAI will not effect DCFC2010's application for a LOI Licence until they settle DCFCWellvan's obligations towards IFA members.

Moreover, DCFC2010 have already reached a settlement with Swifts. No harm to the ethics of the people behind DCFC2010, but why would they do this, when they presumably need every penny they have to get a team on the pitch next month?

It can only be due to FAI pressure. Which prompts the question as to why the FAI should be "going in to bat" on behalf of clubs from another Association? When last week the FA Premier League withheld TV money due to Portsmouth, they diverted it to other Prem clubs to settle outstanding transfer fees owed to them by Pompey. Notably, however, none of the money was paid to a couple of French clubs who are also owed money by Pompey. And the FAI must also be aware that DCFC2010 need every penny they have to compete successfully next season.

Therefore we must assume that since the FAI are so desperate to have DCFC2010 in the EL that they appear to be ignoring/subverting their usual application requirements etc, they (FAI) must believe that the IFA would be within their rights to block DCFC2010's application for Membership of the IFA, thereby banjaxing DCFC2010's hopes before they even got changed in the pub toilets...


* - Re. this assumption, do you consider that an Association may not block an application from a Member to play in a League operating in another jurisdiction under any circumstances? Or is it that they may only do so if they have no valid grounds for opposing it?

For when the old DCFC originally applied to play in the LOI, their grounds were that the Troubles made it impossible to play in the IL(force majeure). Similarly, the Welsh clubs who declined to play in the League of Wales could point to a century of membership of the FL, before the LOW even existed, plus the fact that having to leave the FL would cripple them financially etc.

Imo, no such objections to IL participation can be raised by DCFC2010 (though I accept that this point is largely academic, in the absence of any evidence that the IL wants DCFC2010 back in their League).

[MariborKev]

Lot of assumptions there EG

1. Satisfying IFA Clubs: Swifts have been paid, an agreement reached with Linfield, and the Cliftonville matter is in the hands of the administrator AFAIK.

2. Swifts were paid by "Friends of DC", not Derry City Football Club Limited. If the football club had paid the debts of Linfield and Swifts, other creditors would rightly have been going mad.

3. As for the point re the original entry, the relevant police authorities had said the ground was safe to play in, ever since year since our withdrawal. The entry was rejected every single year.

[OneRedArmy]

There's a lot of "may" and "could" in this thread rather than "will" and "have".

Has anyone anything resembling a fact around the IFA's position in respect of Derry City's membership of the FAI? Have they said anything publicly or privately?

[osarusan]

If my understanding is correct, DCFC Wellvan are gone. DCFC 2010 are a new club, and will have to apply for a licence to play in the LOI. They are not liable for any of the debts of DCFC Wellvan.

DCFC 2010 want to play in the FAI-governed LOI. The special dispensation needed by DCFC 25 years ago is longer needed, if DCFC Steve's info is correct. Apparently the IFA couldn't stop it happening even if they wanted to.

However, as they are located in Northern Ireland, they also need to apply for membership of the IFA. Failure to become members of the IFA would mean they couldn't play in the LOI.

On what grounds, if any, could the IFA deny membership to a club if that club meets all the criteria laid out for membership?

[Réiteoir]

They could always get round this whole issue by having the registered offices and address of the club operating from an address just over the border in the Republic - but play out of the Brandywell.

A la TNS and Chester City

[garyderry]

If my understanding is correct, DCFC Wellvan are gone. DCFC 2010 are a new club, and will have to apply for a licence to play in the LOI. They are not liable for any of the debts of DCFC Wellvan.

DCFC 2010 want to play in the FAI-governed LOI. The special dispensation needed by DCFC 25 years ago is longer needed, if DCFC Steve's info is correct. Apparently the IFA couldn't stop it happening even if they wanted to.

However, as they are located in Northern Ireland, they also need to apply for membership of the IFA. Failure to become members of the IFA would mean they couldn't play in the LOI.

On what grounds, if any, could the IFA deny membership to a club if that club meets all the criteria laid out for membership?

if push really came to shove by the IFA, it wouldnt be beyond the grounds of possibility that Derry could base themselves in the Rebublic as the current ground is only a few miles from the border,
Its extremely unlikely Derry would ever want to or would play over border in Donegal by the way, however if they really were forced out of existence by the IFA then its there as an option.

So at the end of the day, I doubt very much if the IFA will kick up much of a fuss, so long as Linfield and Dungannon have been sorted.

[garyderry]

They could always get round this whole issue by having the registered offices and address of the club operating from an address just over the border in the Republic - but play out of the Brandywell.

A la TNS and Chester City

Got there just before me

[Candystripe]

if push really came to shove by the IFA, it wouldnt be beyond the grounds of possibility that Derry could base themselves in the Rebublic as the current ground is only a few miles from the border,
Its extremely unlikely Derry would ever want to or would play over border in Donegal by the way, however if they really were forced out of existence by the IFA then its there as an option.

.

I'm pretty sure that if it did come to that DCFC could move the 2 miles and play at Killea fc's ground and get one of those lego stands up in no time.

Actually come to think of it....going towards Buncrana, Bridgend would probably have a bigger catchment area to the bigger estates and would be closer to most than the Brandywell is. (about 1/2 mile from nearest)


Imagine we could then put this thread to bed.

[dcfcsteve]

This thread will be put to bed anyway within the next month or so by the licensing decision of the FAI.

Unfortunaterly, that will also bring to an end our Irish League friends' favourite pastime of pointless conjecture and endless assumption. Football's very own metaphysical nihilists.

I'm sure they'll move onto other important footballing topics afterwards. Such as 'If a club falls out of senior football and no-one is there to hear it, did it really make a sound....?'.

[Réiteoir]

Simply replace "Irish League friends" with "Pontificating Rovers Posters" and it'll be like nothing would have changed

[fieldofmarkets]

If/When its all worked out and Derry do play in the 1st...which I hope they do even though that will probably reduce our chances...there will be a lot of new away trips for Derry fans, could be a fun year for them.....and I will be looking forward to a trip to the Brandywell.