The Murphy Report

[Mr A]

Surprised that there hasn't been a thread on it, albeit the findings were depressingly predictable.

One thing that's really annoying me though is that the government seem to be taking the position that it's up to the RC church to decide who's appointed to what position.

Find and dandy- except that these guys have a massive level of control over various elements of health and especially education. There should be no doubt in this case: anybody found to have acted inappropriately in any such report should never have any dealings in these areas ever again.

I idea that guys with a history of turning a blind eye to child abuse could be allowed to continue in such roles is absolutely outrageous.

[dahamsta]

I thought of this yesterday, then heard someone talking on the radio about it today: IMHO, as compensation, every single catholic church-controlled school should be surrendered to the state. Church-controlled schools had their day, and on some level they should be thanked for their good work, but their credit is gone now. The church should have no further part in education in Ireland.

[Mr A]

I was also annoyed by the current archbishop saying that enquiries should not be extended nation wide. While I appreciate that it's more important to prevent re-occurrence, it's still pretty damn important to get as much of the truth out there as possible.

And as for this crap about mental reservation...

The blood really does boil- yet the reaction to all this seems to be strangely muted.

[dahamsta]

The mental reservation thing was like something Ted Crilly would come up with.

"The lie was resting in my mind."

[Billsthoughts]

the saddest thing for me about it was it just highlighted how quickly people had forgotton about the last report. was interesting to read about mcquaid. he seemed untouchable for so long.

[drummerboy]

John Cooney wrote a book about McQuaid, and even mentioned the fact that the Archbishop was himself involved in a scandal with a local publicans son in Drumcondra.

Personally I think their lands should be confiscated from them and used for the good of the state. What does the church need all that land for.

As regards the “Christian” Brothers, well they should be disbanded and any remaining lands confiscated.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Is Bishop Murrays placing his fate in the hands of his parishioners, priests and eclesiastical staff not a bit a like ....Nicky Byrne asking the membership of the Westlife fanclub whether he should stay or go?

Also, it illustrates I feel, how far as a country we still have to go in terms of breaking our default deference to these people that over the last few days the media I've been hearing and reading has really only been asking if those implicated with either turning a blind eye, covering up (accessory after the fact?), moving deviants on/facilitating (straightforward accessory?) should now resign or be removed from their positions.

If this were a different institution -as a microcosm say a school where a principal was knowingly moving a deviant from class to class ...or a sports club where a head coach was moving a predatory team trainer from the U10s to the U12s ...we'd be gathering timber and nails to make gallows.

[Kingdom]

John Cooney wrote a book about McQuaid, and even mentioned the fact that the Archbishop was himself involved in a scandal with a local publicans son in Drumcondra.

I'm very surprised that nothing has come out about the man tbh, I'm of the younger generation so wouldn't have known about the man. A colleague of mine worked in HR of Dept of Health a long time ago and had some pretty interesting things to say a long time before the Murphy Report came about.

[Mr A]

Irish Times Editorial: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...259802984.html

The longer this goes on the clearer it becomes that the RC church hierarchy is morally bankrupt and interested in nothing other than protecting its position. Nothing has changed but the tactics.

[Mr A]

Cowen reckons the Vatican not responding to the requests was grand:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking75.htm

Kenny doesn't seem to think it's much of an issue either. That really is incredible.

What matters more- 'diplomatic protocol' or finding out the truth about kids having their lives destroyed?

[dahamsta]

Catholic guilt my friend. It's the high octane fuel Ireland runs on.

[Macy]

as compensation, every single catholic church-controlled school should be surrendered to the state. Church-controlled schools had their day, and on some level they should be thanked for their good work, but their credit is gone now. The church should have no further part in education in Ireland.

It's the least they can do - it's not like they even fund them in the first place, the only sacrifice they'll be making is not having the power to discriminate against staff and pupils, and the chance to indoctrinate another generation. The Bishops have ultimate responsibility for child protection, still, in over 91% of primary schools FFS.

I'd like it to be a live discussion and see the likes of the IONA Institute/ David Quinn defend the discrimination in state funded schools in the current climate. They've gone to ground like most of the apologists.

[Mr A]

Good to see the Irish Times calling out Cowens pathetic, craven attitude for what it is:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...259993544.html

[thischarmingman]

Good to see the Irish Times calling out Cowens pathetic, craven attitude for what it is:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...259993544.html

. Those citizens have a right to expect their Government to mount at the very least a strong formal protest such as the withdrawal of our Ambassador to the Holy See

Don't you wish we had a government with the backbone to do this? This would send such a strong, international signal of intent. It's a pity it would never happen.

[Mr A]

Interesting survey results released today: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...263037668.html

Generally, FF voters are most inclined to believe that the RC church responded adequate (although a majority still think the didn't) and both FF and FG voters think the church will change to prevent further occurrences of child abuse.

[Mr A]

Decent piece by Ruairi Quinn in the IT today: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...263113401.html

While I don't think he goes nearly far enough, I think he playing it cleverly by making it seem like the RC church's idea. If you go the whole hog from the start then FF and the church will dig their heels in.

[Macy]

While I don't think he goes nearly far enough, I think he playing it cleverly by making it seem like the RC church's idea. If you go the whole hog from the start then FF and the church will dig their heels in.

I agree, on all counts. Although, you'd wonder whether in light of the poll whether a political party that was willing to stand up and say all state schools should be non denominational may actually gain support?

There is zero chance of this Government moving on the issue regardless - their stance on so many issues show how close they are to the Catholic Church. Their reaction to the Vatican's response (or lack of) to the Murphy Report, Civil Partnership/ Gay Marriage, O'Keeffe's treatment of Protestant Schools, The running down of secular/ traditionally protestant hospitals in favour of Catholic Hospitals to name just a few off the top of my head.

One simple measure they could do is to remove the exemptions from equality legislation that schools receive - that would stop discrimination against teachers (for such crimes as being an unmarried mother, being divorced, or being Gay), and would remove the need for sham baptism's just to get into the local state school. We actually allow our schools be bigoted via legislation ffs.