Linfield pull out of Setanta Cup

**osarusan** · 06/01/2010, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The reason for lodging a claim is to establish you are owed what you say you are owed. Otherwise what's to stop any club of business rocking up and saying they are owed £x by Wellvan?

My questions are just about Linfield.

I thought that FODC and Linfield had agreed not only that there would be a payment, but also the amount of the payment (no idea if this is the full amount owed, or just a goodwill gesture).

I may well be wrong though.

I'm not saying that Linfield shouldn't bother putting themselves down as a creditor, just saying that I thought the amount to be paid had already been agreed upon.

**EalingGreen** · 06/01/2010, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by MariborKev

MB,

Personally I think we should be in the A League. However if the FAI tell us we can apply for the 1st Division, then it made sense to apply for that.

In my view we shouldn't be eligible for the Setanta as it would be like parachuting a new club(Bray, Ballymena United etc) in and going- "pretend you are Derry City" and play out the rest of the campaign.

The club that entered the competition in 2009 is in administration, has no players and is in position to fufil fixtures. The new club was not a participant at the start of the competition, how can they start now.

MK,
You can add me to the public list of those who appreciate your consistency and principle re these issues - also your knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes.
Can you clear up one (more) thing which has been puzzling me?
We were told a few months ago that "Derry City" had signed Stephen Kenny as Manager, followed by their first four players.
Who exactly has signed them?
And with whom (if anyone) have their contracts etc been registered?
Is it the old DCFC (Wellvan), or is it FODC or someone else?
Can you register a professional or semi-pro player without your being a recognised, properly-constituted football club?

I am prompted to ask by the latest speculation from the Brandywell today:

Meanwhile, Celtic are trying to finalise a deal for Derry teenager Darren McCauley, according to the Irish club's manager.
The Hoops have reportedly beaten off interest from Blackburn in the 18-year-old midfielder.
Derry boss Stephen Kenny said in the Daily Express: "Celtic are talking to Derry at the moment to try to thrash out a deal.
"There is a lot of interest in Darren but it looks like he will be going to Celtic."
http://www.sportinglife.com/football...c&PREV_SEASON=

May we assume that McAuley is a free agent (i.e. not currently registered with, or contracted to, any club), so Celtic need not pay a transfer fee?

If so, why is Kenny saying that Celtic are "thrashing out a deal with Derry"?

**OneRedArmy** · 06/01/2010, 2:04 PM

Derry City FC Limited (NewCo) signed Stephen Kenny and any players signed this season.

No idea about McCauley. It shouldn't have anything to do with Kenny unless NewCo signed him or were assigned his contract by the administrator.

**passerrby** · 06/01/2010, 2:11 PM

im sure this was asked in the past but cant remember the answer but does the ifa give its permission to allow new DCFC to play outside its Juristriction. and should the fai be seeking permission to accept a club from outside its area of operation.

**MariborKev** · 06/01/2010, 2:11 PM

EG,

I don't know that much.

Why couldn't a player be "signed" with any company, even if they weren't a football club. If I sign a contract with a firm saying that I am starting employment on x date, that is still a signed contract. I would assume that the contracts are in the name of the new limited company.

As for the registration idea, I am unclear on that myself. If the new entity has never had a licence I would say we probably can't register contracts until the licence is awarded.

As for McCauley, I would assume he is a free agent and that any payment would be in relation to a development fee. I reckon any development fee would be going to Top of the Hill Celtic, a local club here as they were responsible for his development for the vast majority of his career.

If Celtic are talking to anyone, I would assume it is the adminstrator of Wellvan in the same way that clubs who approached Rovers, Drogs and Cork about buying their players when they were in examinership. I haven't a clue what Kenny is on about to be honest.

**Acornvilla** · 06/01/2010, 9:10 PM

would it not make sence that derry not be alout in the setanta cup and linfield be given the victory? sorry if someones lready suggested it

garyderry · 07/01/2010, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Acornvilla

would it not make sence that derry not be alout in the setanta cup and linfield be given the victory? sorry if someones lready suggested it

Make more sense that derry drop out and pats and Linfield play-off on who should go through, however its up to the organisers not Linfield or anyone on here.

I would have thought it was obvious that Derry wouldnt be in it, however now with all Linfields threats, its hard to tell what will happen. The organising committee shouldnt be seen to be bullied by Linfield. Maybe the next placed EL team not in the Setanta taking Derrys berth is an option, the other likely event is the setanta cup fading away.

**osarusan** · 07/01/2010, 12:41 PM

Are teams free to just pull out without being sanctioned in any way?

**saint dog** · 07/01/2010, 12:47 PM

With all the rivalry between the fans up north on here
maybe the new derry would be better off in the Irish League

**OneRedArmy** · 07/01/2010, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by saint dog

With all the rivalry between the fans up north on here
maybe the new derry would be better off in the Irish League

Maybe you'd be better off reading the moderator comments.

**EalingGreen** · 07/01/2010, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by MariborKev

EG,

I don't know that much.

Why couldn't a player be "signed" with any company, even if they weren't a football club. If I sign a contract with a firm saying that I am starting employment on x date, that is still a signed contract. I would assume that the contracts are in the name of the new limited company.

As for the registration idea, I am unclear on that myself. If the new entity has never had a licence I would say we probably can't register contracts until the licence is awarded.

As for McCauley, I would assume he is a free agent and that any payment would be in relation to a development fee. I reckon any development fee would be going to Top of the Hill Celtic, a local club here as they were responsible for his development for the vast majority of his career.

If Celtic are talking to anyone, I would assume it is the adminstrator of Wellvan in the same way that clubs who approached Rovers, Drogs and Cork about buying their players when they were in examinership. I haven't a clue what Kenny is on about to be honest.

Absolutely not, I'm afraid (in bold).

Signing a professional football contract is not like working for a bank or a farmer etc. Otherwise, how do you think clubs can demand a transfer fee for when a player breaks his contract to join another club? It doesn't happen in other industries.
Neither does eg a banker have to get permission from any body (FA) to register with another bank.
The whole point about pro or semi-pro footballers is that they can only become registered to play in a sanctioned competition if they are members of a registered football club.
(Which was why there was so much hoohaa about Tevez and Mascherano - their contract was owned by an Agent, not a club, or an Official of a club).

Moreover, it is widely believed that it is an FAI-imposed condition of DCFC getting a 1st Divn. Licence that they first clear their debts to Swifts and Linfield. This prompts the question as to why the FAI should insist on something which would benefit clubs of another Association, at the same time as hurting financially one of their own prospective members.

I can only think that this is because if they are to operate as a pro/semi-pro club, DCFC need to be registered with their local Association (IFA), and the IFA have said that they will not recognise/register them, and/or permit them to play in another FA's jurisdiction, until they (whether "old" or "new") have settled their debts with their fellow IFA members.

And if DCFC are not (yet) registered as a pro/semi-pro club with an Association, they cannot sign players on pro/semi-pro terms.

And if they cannot (yet, at least) own players' registrations, I cannot see how they may negotiate, never mind benefit from, one of "their" players signing for another club. Is this evidence that the new guys at the Brandywell are still operating a system of "Nods and Winks", perhaps assisted by Delaney & Co, in the manner of their predecessors?

**dcfcsteve** · 07/01/2010, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by saint dog

maybe the new derry would be better off in the Irish League

Maybe not, maybe so.

But one thing we do all know is that the LOI would be much worse off without Derry City....

**MariborKev** · 07/01/2010, 2:38 PM

Agreed EG,

But take the situation as it stands- I am assuming that DCFC Ltd will not register any contract until a licence is awarded by the FAI, which alludes to the point that you make yourself.

The players sign a contract, or indeed possibly a pre contract, that states that subject to DCFC being awarded a licence they are contracted to that club. They have agreed in principle to sign for the club at this point.

They are, assuming a licence is awarded, now contractually bound to that club. However as no contracts have been registered with the FAI there is no need to get permission for registration etc.

If the entity that the players were contracted to is no longer in existence, then permission should be straightforward.

I agree with the point that you are making as regarding playing, but for the moment forget that. If/when the licence is awarded and players have to be registered then the situation is different.

Personally I don’t believe they will be benefiting from McCauley, that is just Kenny who is fond of a soundbite, giving a quote.

**OneRedArmy** · 07/01/2010, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Is this evidence that the new guys at the Brandywell are still operating a system of "Nods and Winks", perhaps assisted by Delaney & Co, in the manner of their predecessors?

What do you think? You're fond of the rhetorical questions EG, I'll give you that. An easy way of hiding behind unsubstantiated rumours some would say.

But like a child and the cookie jar, you can't help yourself putting your hand back in over and over again, despite being warned many times you've had enough...

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Of course, maybe if DCFC were still in the IL, their fellow IL clubs might have been prepared to "cut them some more slack", or maybe even the IFA might have brokered some sort of compromise?

**saint dog** · 07/01/2010, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by garyderry

Muppet,

something I wouldnt expect from a Pats fan

get a grip would you
im just commenting on the childish fighting like cats and dogs of fans
on the thread , obviously what i said was tongue n cheek
personally i love our trips to the brandywell and we always made feel welcome there

**passerrby** · 07/01/2010, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by MariborKev

Agreed EG,

The players sign a contract, or indeed possibly a pre contract, that states that subject to DCFC being awarded a licence they are contracted to that club. They have agreed in principle to sign for the club at this point.
.

I would think kev that it is not a contract until it is registered with the league on a standard players contract.and until then can move whenever he pleases.

**Cosmo** · 07/01/2010, 5:46 PM

Well done linfield, they were dead right!

Cant see why some derry (not sure which derry theyre supporters of though -maybe clarify that when posting in future lads) fans have a problem with it!!

**gspain** · 07/01/2010, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by garyderry

Make more sense that derry drop out and pats and Linfield play-off on who should go through, however its up to the organisers not Linfield or anyone on here.

I would have thought it was obvious that Derry wouldnt be in it, however now with all Linfields threats, its hard to tell what will happen. The organising committee shouldnt be seen to be bullied by Linfield. Maybe the next placed EL team not in the Setanta taking Derrys berth is an option, the other likely event is the setanta cup fading away.

You also have the issue of the best runner up reaching the semis.

If Pats and Linfield are given walkovers (3-0??) then they could win a game each v each other and most likely qualify as winner and best runner up unless Sligo and Cork draw again.

The other option is let them playoff for a semi place but the losers go out.

I can't see how the new Derry City can be left in the competition.