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Thread: Bohs SCP discussion

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    Reserves LukeO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    welcome back LukeO, it seems my relentless campaign to have you reinstated worked.
    It was only a month's ban.

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    Capped Player SkStu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeO View Post
    It was only a month's ban.
    thats what they told you - you have no idea what was going on behind the scenes. Back in time for christmas, it was the best i could do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Not everything you don't want to hear is a stir, SkStu. However, at the risk of going off topic, I'll just very briefly back it up for you if you want.

    First off, as stated, my post was a theory to fit micls' post. I'm obviously not stating it's true. That seems to have confused dalymountrower, so I'll say it again here.


    No, I`m not confused at all at your motives in arriving at your hypothetical scenario, using Micls post to justify your flight of fantasy is confusing though


    Your part on selling Dalymount again to clear debts makes perfect sense. I don't share your confidence in getting under 65%, however, and I've not seen any back up for this other than "The board told us".

    Hard fund raising work, significant cuts in salaries for players and redundancies for some non -playing staff were the painful realities of getting below the 65% cap for 2009.

    In last year's accounts, total income was E3.05m, and players' wages were E1.95m - SCP% of 64%. Hence, you get a licence for 2009.

    I think it's fair to say that Liam Carroll won't be paying E1m this year - partly because he's currently sueing you over the deal, and partly because he doesn't have any money.

    News to me that Liam Carroll is sueing over a deal that he can`t complete? When did this happen Stu?. There are ongoing proceedings between Bohs and Albion properties/Paschal Conroy is that what you`re referring to

    Take that money out, and let's say everything else stays the same (obviously open for debate), and you need to take E600k off wages to meet the 65% cap.


    Well nothing did stay the same, expenditure is down for 09 , income from fundraising, prize money, euro qualification has had to offset Liam Carrol being unable to continue his contracted payments. Due to the hard work of players,fans and members we have achieved that


    In addition, I think this year, the SCP changes from players only to players and management/technical staff. In that case, you need to take E1m off your wage budget - halve it, in other words. I appreciate you saying the wages bill has been reduced, but you'll understand that people are very sceptical as to whether enough has been done, particularly given you're already under a transfer embargo for exceeding 65% from early on in the year.

    The alternative is that you need to find an extra E1.5m in income on last year to meet the 65% cap (the E1m from Liam Carroll plus the E400k managers' salaries grossed up by 65%). You'll understand that people are sceptical as to whether that's been done also.

    Well we don`t ,as you`ve based your figures on a hypothetical scenario where expenditure was not cut in 2009

    I know you'd like all negative talk about Bohs to be stopped, but those are some facts, and I think it's fair for people to wonder about Bohs signing new players at the moment.
    Some facts , mostly conjecture though ,in fairness.
    The negative talk goes with the territory when you dominate the league for two years. Bohs and our financial travails have been forensically examined (and our triumph in meeting the SCP against the odds being ignored in this Forum). I genuinely think that the level of scrutiny has helped to galvanise our response. Its a pity that the same level of scrutiny wasn`t applied to Derry , as it may have saved them from the recent debacle,

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I'm talking about the 2009 salary cap (I'm extrapolating 2009 figures from 2008's accounts), which is the same as you're talking about here (I think) -




    I apologise; you're appealing the decision to the Supreme Court at the moment; either way, the point is that Carroll is unlikely to be paying the E1m in 2009 (which you seem to agree with given you didn't challenge that part of my post).
    Last I heard Liam Carroll was free to go ahead and buy Dalymount so he certainly should be paying Bohs at least 1m this year.

  5. #25
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by de bowez View Post
    Last I heard Liam Carroll was free to go ahead and buy Dalymount so he certainly should be paying Bohs at least 1m this year.
    News to me, and the answer to the question I was going to pose LukeO, who chose to ignore almost everything in my post to pick up on one relatively minor technicality - did Liam Carroll pay the E1m to Bohs this year?

    There's conflicting info on this - LukeO's link includes the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Indo
    Further payments from Danninger were put on hold pending completion of the turf war with Mr Conroy.
    which directly conflicts with de bowez's post. In that case, the numbers in my post (the important bit) are correct, even if the means of arriving at them (less important) is slightly out. Easy thing to mix up Bohs' many court appearances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    News to me, and the answer to the question I was going to pose LukeO, who chose to ignore almost everything in my post to pick up on one relatively minor technicality - did Liam Carroll pay the E1m to Bohs this year?

    There's conflicting info on this - LukeO's link includes the line


    which directly conflicts with de bowez's post. In that case, the numbers in my post (the important bit) are correct, even if the means of arriving at them (less important) is slightly out. Easy thing to mix up Bohs' many court appearances.

    BOHEMIANS hope to sell Dalymount Park in a deal worth what SunSport understands to be up to €35million after they began clearing up the legal mess surrounding their ground.

    At an EGM at DCU last night, members were shown a four-point plan designed to facilitate the sale of Dalymount and a move to a purpose-built stadium.

    It was drawn up in a bid to end the log-jam caused by separate and conflicting deals with two companies, Danninger and Albion Properties.

    And — after members voted in favour of the plan in an overwhelming majority — Bohs hope to press ahead with a deal to sell the entire ground to Albion, owners of the Phibsborough Shopping Centre.

    The vote also ensures Bohs will comply with the Salary Cost Protocol which dictates players' wages must not exceed 65 per cent of revenue.

    They will achieve that by drawing down a portion of a €1m payment due from Albion.

    The sale of Dalymount will provide Bohs with a cash payment and a new stadium roughly equal in value.

    Albion will build a ground within the club's catchment area, on the northside of the city but within the M50 perimeter as well as paying an eight-figure cash payment which would secure the club's long-term future.

    In 2012, Bohs are due to begin repayments to Zurich Bank on a €4m loan secured on the car park on the Connacht Street [sic!] side of the ground, currently leased to the Mater Hospital.

    The proposal put to members was:

    1) Bohs will repay €1.1m to Albion Properties, paid for purchase of parcel of land at Tramway End.

    2) Albion will pay €1m to Bohs to secure an option to buy Dalymount, subject to members' approval.

    3) Danninger will be given full title to Dalymount Park. If Danninger can proceed with original deal, Bohs will pay €10m to Albion. If not, Bohs will negotiate sale to Albion.

    4) If the deal to sell the ground is not approved, Albion will keep parcel of land at Tramway End but Bohs will retain the above €1m payment.

    Bohs were forced to go back to the drawing board when they lost a High Court case to Albion in November last year. Mr Justice John Edwards ruled that Bohs and Albion DID have an agreement in place concerning the sale of land at the Tramway End.

    The judge rejected Bohs' claim that monies received from Albion were goodwill gestures to facilitate a potential future deal rather than a payment for an agreed sale.

    That scuppered a deal Bohs had subsequently struck with Danninger — a Liam Carroll company — to sell the entire ground in return for a new 10,000-seater stadium in Harristown and €38.125m in cash.

    Bohs have already received in the region of €2.6m from Danninger and, following last night's vote, Carroll can press ahead with that deal.

    But, because of the developer's mounting financial problems, it is thought highly unlikely he will be in a position to do so but Bohs would not be obliged to repay the €2.6m.

    A Bohs spokesman said: "There is no question of us being in breach of contract with Danninger as we are happy for Plan A to proceed. But, if that cannot happen, this is Plan B."

    Bohs had held talks with Dublin City Council and Fingal County Council about a new ground development as well as with the FAI who are keen on a groundshare with Shelbourne.

    Crucially, none of those organisations had any money to bring to the table, leading Bohs to try to come to an agreement with Pascal Conroy of Albion.

    Conroy has long been interested in acquiring Dalymount to allow a financially-viable expansion of the shopping centre. Bohs have not ruled out the possibility of facilitating tenants at a new ground with Shels — who are expected to be forced out of Tolka Park in the near future — the obvious candidates.

    Shels already hope to base themselves in Dalymount for next season, although no deal has been concluded. __________________

  7. #27
    Capped Player Schumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by de bowez View Post
    The vote also ensures Bohs will comply with the Salary Cost Protocol which dictates players' wages must not exceed 65 per cent of revenue.

    They will achieve that by drawing down a portion of a €1m payment due from Albion.

    The proposal put to members was:

    1) Bohs will repay €1.1m to Albion Properties, paid for purchase of parcel of land at Tramway End.

    2) Albion will pay €1m to Bohs to secure an option to buy Dalymount, subject to members' approval.
    Am I reading this right, Bohs pay Albion €1.1m, Albion pay Bohs €1m and Bohs include the €1m as part of their income for the SCP? That can't be allowed surely.
    We're not arrogant, we're just better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi View Post
    Am I reading this right, Bohs pay Albion €1.1m, Albion pay Bohs €1m and Bohs include the €1m as part of their income for the SCP? That can't be allowed surely.
    I'm sure they won't be doing this. Besides, even if they tried I'm sure Shamrock's board would send a letter questioning the accounts to the papers and FAI in their self appointed position as guardians of the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi View Post
    Am I reading this right, Bohs pay Albion €1.1m, Albion pay Bohs €1m and Bohs include the €1m as part of their income for the SCP? That can't be allowed surely.
    No, as far as I know its a legal matter. We repay Albion the money they paid us years ago and that whole dispute is settled. They no longer have any rights to any portion of Dalymount. Now in a completely new deal they have bought first option to buy Dalymount if Carroll doesnt go through with buying Dalymount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wexfordned View Post
    I'm sure they won't be doing this. Besides, even if they tried I'm sure Shamrock's board would send a letter questioning the accounts to the papers and FAI in their self appointed position as guardians of the league.
    I would hope they would.
    Lets redefine what it means to heal

  11. #31
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi View Post
    Am I reading this right, Bohs pay Albion €1.1m, Albion pay Bohs €1m and Bohs include the €1m as part of their income for the SCP? That can't be allowed surely.
    Reminds me of this thread on the Drogheda forum where it was implied that Bohs' underage expenses were high because DCU charged a lot, while underage income was high because DCU sponsored some of the underage teams.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 01/01/2010 at 4:06 PM. Reason: Link corrected

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Reminds me of this thread on the Drogheda forum where it was implied that Bohs' underage expenses were high because DCU charged a lot, while underage income was high because DCU sponsored some of the underage teams.
    Can`t access that link without registering. So you are implying that DCU and Bohs are conspiring to allow Bohs to circumvent the SCP? Is that a better source than your erroneous and inflammatory assertion that Bohs are being sued by Liam Carroll? The few remaining Bohs fans that peruse this Forum might be forgiven for being sceptical about any assertions made by you on Bohs related matters. Moderator in name only when it comes to Bohs it would appear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi View Post
    Am I reading this right, Bohs pay Albion €1.1m, Albion pay Bohs €1m and Bohs include the €1m as part of their income for the SCP? That can't be allowed surely.
    Seems fine to me. They're seperate land deals.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalymountrower View Post
    Can`t access that link without registering
    Do feel free to read it before going off on a whine; it really undermines everything you say. The suggestion in fact comes from one of your own fans in the thread. Of course, once people added two and two, he swiftly went into denial mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Do feel free to read it before going off on a whine; it really undermines everything you say. The suggestion in fact comes from one of your own fans in the thread. Of course, once people added two and two, he swiftly went into denial mode.

    Answer the question. Are you implying that DCU and Bohs have concocted a commercial transaction to circumvent the rules of the FAI re the SCP.?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Do what I told you. Read the thread where you'll see a Bohs fan say that they pay fees to DCU for facilities, and that DCU sponsor the underage teams, giving rise to rather high underage expense and income figures, as previously noted by others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Do feel free to read it before going off on a whine; it really undermines everything you say. The suggestion in fact comes from one of your own fans in the thread. Of course, once people added two and two, he swiftly went into denial mode.
    I read the extensive coverage of this issue on the FOOT.IE forum where you made your usual voluminous contribution. Objections by Bohs fans to the level of unfounded conjecture at that point, including the naming of a Bohs player as being part of a a SCP avoiding dodgey deal, led to the usual banning and infractions being dished out to those raising the objections.
    I am intrigued that you quoted a link to another site rather than the link to the FOOT.IE debate on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalymountrower View Post
    Can`t access that link without registering.
    The post which Stu referred to is:
    Quote Originally Posted by celdrog
    Quote Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
    Don't know if they all have different sponsors but the older teams are sponsored by DCU sports afaik.
    Hold on a second - your expenditure is partly down to DCU being expensive to train in yet your income is DCU sponsoring your teams.
    The D hotel could sponsor the Drogs for €1 million and then charge €1M to rent out a room. That's €1M income which counts towards the salary cap protocol buts its not real money
    Nobody is saying that Bohs and DCU have a cosy arrangement for cheating the SCP, but I am still curious as to how an underage set-up generates €110k as income for the club. Why don't DCU just give the facilities at a discount price or free? A lot of that €110k income is going back to DCU.
    Anyway the discussion above was ended by BP calling me an internerd warrior and Stu a toolbag

    If Bohs give Albion €1.1M and then get €1M back in two separate transactions, then I think that is fair enough. Use the €900k to help you pay higher wages, its not real money and would just become debt at the end of the year.
    Hunky Dorys Park - could be worse, we could be going to Old Trafford every other week

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celdrog View Post
    The post which Stu referred to is:


    Nobody is saying that Bohs and DCU have a cosy arrangement for cheating the SCP, but I am still curious as to how an underage set-up generates €110k as income for the club. Why don't DCU just give the facilities at a discount price or free? A lot of that €110k income is going back to DCU.
    Anyway the discussion above was ended by BP calling me an internerd warrior and Stu a toolbag

    If Bohs give Albion €1.1M and then get €1M back in two separate transactions, then I think that is fair enough. Use the €900k to help you pay higher wages, its not real money and would just become debt at the end of the year.
    There was no need for this thread to have been started. Once again it's decending into innuendo & bulls**t that was the rovers objection thread.

    Every club has to submit monthly accounts. You can be assured Bohs were under 65% at end of November or you would have had all the Rovers/UCD keyboard warriors on this site with links to every piece on the web they could find & screaming relegation!!!

    Also as part of the licencing requirements for 2010 budgets for next season have to be submitted so why shouldn't bohs sign players based on this budget. Again if the FAI had rejected boh's budget you can be sure people would have been on this site bit*hing & moaning

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    Quote Originally Posted by wexfordned View Post
    I'm sure they won't be doing this. Besides, even if they tried I'm sure Shamrock's board would send a letter questioning the accounts to the papers and FAI in their self appointed position as guardians of the league.
    That would be silly. What we should do though is sign all the players who won't sign for us because we won't pay them big money, put two of them down as working in the club shop as well, give the schoolboy section a golden handshake(on paper anyway), and break the 65% all season until the last week of the season. That should see us ok.
    False hope is worse than no hope. Ask Sligo.

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