An Over Rated Irish 11

[SkStu]

My Team would be purely based on the last 10 years:

Brian Murphy(I know he hasnt played a game for Ireland yet but to say he's Givens replacement is a joke, bring Dean Kiely back)

Gary Kelly
Kenny Cunningham
Paul McShane
Kevin Kilbane

Andy Reid
Liam Miller(next Roy Keane...yeah right)
Glenn Whelan
James McCarthy(he cant even get into a Wigan team)

Clinton Morrison
Leon Best(Hes muck, pure muck, how does he get on ahead of Shane Long etc)

Murphy and James McCarthy havent even played for Ireland yet FFS. How the fck can they be overrated???

[Colbert Report]

Murphy and James McCarthy havent even played for Ireland yet FFS. How the fck can they be overrated???

In fairness, McCarthy's agent had been doing the rounds saying how Barcelona were very interested in him. He was on trial with Liverpool at age sixteen and had put in a full 100 appearances for his club at the senior level by his 18th birthday! He was so over-hyped that I, along with others, expected him to be in Wigan's first team from day one. Perhaps that is our fault, not his, but either way, he was very over-rated given his agent's comments and the talk on here surrounding his future.

[SkStu]

fair enough but agents are known to hype up their players for obvious reasons. Id take most of what they say with a pinch of salt.

If you look at the facts, he played over 100 times in a tough league and was a top performer each week for Hamilton, as a 17 and 18 year old he represented the Irish U21 team with good reviews and held his own with the senior squad by all accounts, he just scored his first goal with Wigan with a young ambitious manager who obviously rates him highly and he is only just turned 19 years old.

Surely still an excellent prospect for the future instead of an overrated failure?

[Colbert Report]

fair enough but agents are known to hype up their players for obvious reasons. Id take most of what they say with a pinch of salt.

If you look at the facts, he played over 100 times in a tough league and was a top performer each week for Hamilton, as a 17 and 18 year old he represented the Irish U21 team with good reviews and held his own with the senior squad by all accounts, he just scored his first goal with Wigan with a young ambitious manager who obviously rates him highly and he is only just turned 19 years old.

Surely still an excellent prospect for the future instead of an overrated failure?

Personally I think he's failed to make an impact at the top level and I don't think he ever will. I would love nothing better than to be totally wrong, obviously we always need more Irish players playing at the top level to ensure success for the national team.

I know this sounds ludicrous seeing as he's only just turned nineteen, and I hope and pray that you're on here five years from now bumping this thread to prove what an idiot I am. I just don't see it happening for him, as I think it would have happened by now. Wigan are hardly world beaters, even on their best day, and he can't get into their Premiership starting XI.

That said, the way he was over-hyped, anything less than an Irish version of Ronaldo and I would have been disappointed, which is my fault, not his. I wish him all the luck in the world, hopefully things work out for him and he can get some games under his belt in 2010.

[SkStu]

facebook generation.

Instant gratification or nothing.

[Colbert Report]

facebook generation.

Instant gratification or nothing.

Hardly. I'm much older than you son. McCarthy has shown nothing at the top level. The SPL is only a "tough league", as you put it, because most of the players are muck who can't tackle properly. McCarthy has never shown he is capable of anything at the top level. There's nothing wrong with that, plenty of players can get it done at the semi-professional level like the LOI and the MLS, but fail at the top level. McCarthy is one of those players I fear. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[SkStu]

you do realise that MLS and LOI are professional leagues? As is the SPL.

What is this "top level" that you refer to? Whats your definition? He's already scored against a premiership club which is the highest level he can aspire to currently... Im just not sure why you are insisting on branding a 19 year old talent as a failure and refusing to give him a year or two to adjust to a new city, new club, new manager and new team-mates?

Its bizarre. I dont get it. The fact that your "much older" than me makes it worse in a lot of ways. I was hoping id start to make more sense as i grow older.

[Colbert Report]

you do realise that MLS and LOI are professional leagues? As is the SPL.

What is this "top level" that you refer to? Whats your definition? He's already scored against a premiership club which is the highest level he can aspire to currently... Im just not sure why you are insisting on branding a 19 year old talent as a failure and refusing to give him a year or two to adjust to a new city, new club, new manager and new team-mates?

Its bizarre. I dont get it. The fact that your "much older" than me makes it worse in a lot of ways. I was hoping id start to make more sense as i grow older.

One can tell that you were educated in Canada and not Ireland. Instead of writing "your much older", you should have written "you're much older." Pathetic really.

The MLS and LOI are not fully professional leagues. Most players in both leagues do not make a full time living playing football, as most have second jobs to supplement their income. Most MLS players are on very little money - http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html

I will admit that I don't know much about the LOI but I can't imagine that the average salary is more than a two or three hundred euro a week. You can't tell me that these guys are feeding their families on that kind of money.

We're getting off topic - this thread is about over-rated players, and McCarthy certainly fits into that category given the hype that has surrounded him for the past three years. He's done nothing, absolutely nothing at the top level. A goal against a Hull reserve team in an early round of a cup that nobody cares about anymore is not going to change my opinion of him, sorry.

[Acornvilla]

ah lord blessus

[SkStu]

One can tell that you were educated in Canada and not Ireland. Instead of writing "your much older", you should have written "you're much older." Pathetic really.

The MLS and LOI are not fully professional leagues. Most players in both leagues do not make a full time living playing football, as most have second jobs to supplement their income. Most MLS players are on very little money - http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html

I will admit that I don't know much about the LOI but I can't imagine that the average salary is more than a two or three hundred euro a week. You can't tell me that these guys are feeding their families on that kind of money.

We're getting off topic - this thread is about over-rated players, and McCarthy certainly fits into that category given the hype that has surrounded him for the past three years. He's done nothing, absolutely nothing at the top level. A goal against a Hull reserve team in an early round of a cup that nobody cares about anymore is not going to change my opinion of him, sorry.

way to miss the point i was making just so you could have a dig.


You didnt answer my question - i dont think you ever answer a direct question, you just drag things off topic - what is your definition of the top level and what are you expecting McCarthy to have done by now as a 19 year old? Are you not prepared to allow him some time to adjust to all these new things before writing him off? And if not, why not?

regarding the off topic stuff you mentioned:

I moved to Canada 3 years ago by the way. Educated in Ireland all the way through university. Though as you can probably gather it wasnt an english degree although its not like my improper use of your vs. you're should make a difference to the point im making at all.

MLS is a professional league - those salaries you linked to look pretty healthy, the lowest is for young players and is around $20k, decent money for a young professional - anyway, its a professional league see the first line here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer
LOI salaries range from e300 per week (for younger players) to e20000 for the top players. Certain players have, in the past, made up to e3000 (or more) per week. Certainly enough to keep a young family well fed.

But please focus on answering the questions that i have bolded. Thanks.

[Colbert Report]

way to miss the point i was making just so you could have a dig.


You didnt answer my question - i dont think you ever answer a direct question, you just drag things off topic - what is your definition of the top level and what are you expecting McCarthy to have done by now as a 19 year old? Are you not prepared to allow him some time to adjust to all these new things before writing him off? And if not, why not?

regarding the off topic stuff you mentioned:

I moved to Canada 3 years ago by the way. Educated in Ireland all the way through university. Though as you can probably gather it wasnt an english degree although its not like my improper use of your vs. you're should make a difference to the point im making at all.

MLS is a professional league - those salaries you linked to look pretty healthy, the lowest is for young players and is around $20k, decent money for a young professional - anyway, its a professional league see the first line here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer
LOI salaries range from e300 per week (for younger players) to e20000 for the top players. Certain players have, in the past, made up to e3000 (or more) per week. Certainly enough to keep a young family well fed.

But please focus on answering the questions that i have bolded. Thanks.

You haven't bolded any questions, but I'll give it a shot to placate you.

The top level is the top divisions in England, Spain, Italy or Germany. Given the hype surrounding McCarthy the past few years, I would have at least expected him to be making regular substitute appearances for Wigan, one of the worst teams in the Premiership. I can't understand why you're attacking me so much - either you have personal problems of your own that you're taking out on me or else you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "over-rated XI". McCarthy was supposedly being looked at by all the top clubs in the world and ended up at Wigan. That is in itself a major disappointment.

At this point, I would have expected him to be at least on the bench for Wigan, but he's not. No, I'm not prepared to allow him a full season for "adjustment". At his age, he should be fit as a fiddle and out there running with the big boys. Nineteen is not a young player nowadays, look up how young most players are when they break into Premiership teams and you'll be surprised. As far as I'm concerned, this season will have been a total waste for McCarthy if a twenty minute sub appearance at Manchester United and an FA Cup third round goal against Hull's reserves are the highlights of his season.

[SkStu]

fair enough - then all i will say is you have unrealistic expectations. Im prepared to give McCarthy more time before writig him off as a failure. I think that it is absolute insanity that you are ready to write him off already. As for no time for adjustment, you think its unreasonable that a young lad (who has been through the sh!t he has been through from Scottish media and fans for declaring for Ireland) should be given the benefit of the doubt by Irish fans (like yourself) when moving to a new city, new club etc etc. Insane.

Out of interest, could you show me the article where you have seen what average age players are when they break into premiership teams as i would find it interesting and very surprising if it was younger than 20 or 21.

[tetsujin1979]

You haven't bolded any questions, but I'll give it a shot to placate you.

The top level is the top divisions in England, Spain, Italy or Germany.

so anyone playing outside these leagues is automatically a bad player?

Given the hype surrounding McCarthy the past few years, I would have at least expected him to be making regular substitute appearances for Wigan, one of the worst teams in the Premiership.

He was injured in preseason so took time to get back to full fitness. He's been playing and scoring for the reserves, and has been an unused substitute quite a bit recently. I'm reasonably happy with that

I can't understand why you're attacking me so much - either you have personal problems of your own that you're taking out on me or else you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "over-rated XI".

Because you're being overly critical of a 19 year old player.

McCarthy was supposedly being looked at by all the top clubs in the world and ended up at Wigan. That is in itself a major disappointment.

Possibly, but was Robbie Keane's move from Wolves to Coventry at a similar age an equal disappointment?

At this point, I would have expected him to be at least on the bench for Wigan, but he's not.

Yes he is - http://tetsujin1979.appspot.com/ClubDetails?ClubID=2783
Been on the bench in 5 of the last 6 games

No, I'm not prepared to allow him a full season for "adjustment".

Why not? The likes of Pires took at least that to adjust to the Premier League and he was an established French international when he moved to Arsenal

At his age, he should be fit as a fiddle and out there running with the big boys.

Said it above, he was injured in pre-season and didn't start training properly until September, he missed out on a lot of pre-season training when the majority of intensive cardio training is done to prepare you for the season

Nineteen is not a young player nowadays, look up how young most players are when they break into Premiership teams and you'll be surprised.

You'd be hard pressed to put together a team of nineteen year olds who have broken into the starting team in the Premier League this season. Even the likes of Arsenal, who are known for pushing youth players into the first team, don't have more than 2 or 3 in their squad.
I'd say McCarthy has broken into the matchday squad, the next step is the first team

As far as I'm concerned, this season will have been a total waste for McCarthy if a twenty minute sub appearance at Manchester United and an FA Cup third round goal against Hull's reserves are the highlights of his season.

It's not. He started against Blackpool in the League Cup and was substituted on 65 minutes.
Do you really think he's not going to play again this season?

[SkStu]

well said Tets, certainly better than i could ever put it.

Just regarding your second last point - Jack Wilshere, extemely highly rated and possibly the most talented player i have seen in a long time - i saw him play for Arsenal in a pre-season tournament and he was absolutely outstanding. I thought he would be a stand out player in the premier league this season but his appearances have been limited to Carling Cup (i think).

I dont see anyone writing him off as a failure yet just because he failed to breakthrough as a teenager...

[osarusan]

well said Tets, certainly better than i could ever put it.

Just regarding your second last point - Jack Wilshere, extemely highly rated and possibly the most talented player i have seen in a long time - i saw him play for Arsenal in a pre-season tournament and he was absolutely outstanding. I thought he would be a stand out player in the premier league this season but his appearances have been limited to Carling Cup (i think).

I dont see anyone writing him off as a failure yet just because he failed to breakthrough as a teenager...

You forgot to capitalise the first letter there Stu. I'm afraid that invalidates your entire argument and means you know nothing about football.

[Den Perry]

Are you having a laugh ya head banger. He's techinally beter than Duff and McGeady and wants it about 50 times more

the new year is but 2 days old and I doubt I will read a more ridiculous post than that above for the rest of 2010

[MeathDrog]

Are you having a laugh ya head banger. He's techinally beter than Duff and McGeady and wants it about 50 times more

LOL!!

[OwlsFan]

Ray Houghton; Two or three goals in big matches makes him a hero, but added nothing on the field. ran like an expecting ant, going home with some heavy shopping.

I would put Houghton in the underrated players teams. Never got the credit he deserved and was probably the most effective player of the Charlton era. Nothing to do with the goals he scored. He covered every blade of grass for the team and seldom gave the ball away. Perpetual motion in action and effective with the ball at his feet. What more could you ask of a player, especially in a Charlton team, where the emphasis was on closing down the opposition?

[weecountyman]

Kenny Cunningham was an underrated player, solid, dependable and reliable. Good mid-level epl standard. I remember a televised cup game about 5-6 years ago when he held the Birmigham defence together. He came at a time when Ireland were in transition from being a solid defensive side to playing football, which was going to be difficult. Be he had a decent career and never "bigged it up".

[bennocelt]

Even Given, I doubt if he wasn't Irish so many people would laud him as one of the worlds best. Why I say that is because when people always name the best goalkeepers its always buffon and casilias mentioned as well as english league goalkeepers. u never hear anyone mentioning bundesliga keepers even though they have quality keepers

Other keepers I loved............Volkan Demirel, Ladic Drazen, Ricardo,
A Isaksson, Ravelli, Boruc (before he went mad), Kahn, Campos, Preud'homme, Taffarel..........................You see we are not all closeted with the EPL