Brian Lenihan reported to have pancreatic cancer

[superfrank]

What do people think about him staying on while receiving treatment? I read somewhere else he'll have to cut back on his hours as well.

I think someone else should come in, at least for the short term.

[mypost]

Simply because we aren't going to have an election anytime soon and the fact remains he is one of the best politicans in this Dail. & yes he has had a good 12 months IMO! (professionally speaking) He was rowing the boat when the sh*t was stirring, but not at the helm.

Best politicians? Lets see.

He was given the job of finance minister with no qualifications for the role. He was a barrister, not an accountant. This is someone who doesn't fully read financial reports, and "welcomed" a highly critical IMF report on this country last year.

The figures he calculated his first budget on, were wildly way off the mark. So bad, that he needed to introduce a pension levy, and an emergency budget within 6 months. None of which contributed to cutting the public deficit. In fact, it increased it by 2 billion.

NAMA has been established involving €54 billion, while this week, the first of his fines in his latest budget kick in. Hitting the lowest rung of society by €8 per week, and only if they are over 25. Even more draconian if you're under it. Interesting to see him praising his doctors in his radio interview. The very same doctors he's hitting in the pocket again this week.

Last January, Superquinn reacted to cross-border shopping, by closing their Dundalk branch. People are going to the UK to shop, but people will shop around for the best value. Germany is surrounded by cheaper non-Euro neighbours, however I've yet to see millions of Herren flocking to Poland, Czech Republic, Denmark, or Switzerland for cheaper goods every weekend, or when on strike. And Germany isn't the cheapest country in the world.

His illness should not deflect from the fact he has been completely incompetent in his role to date. And only when Bruton or the Banshee get in, who've some knowledge of what they're talking about, will we see some form of recovery.

[Macy]

What do people think about him staying on while receiving treatment? I read somewhere else he'll have to cut back on his hours as well.

I'd be very sceptical, after witnessing close relatives going through Chemo, and one of them Chemo and Radiation at the same time. The effects may vary, but it is sure they'll be some effect. What happens if there's some crisis on one of the days he's suffering?

His illness should not deflect from the fact he has been completely incompetent in his role to date.

Hear hear. He's made a complete balls of the banks, from the bank guarantee, the nationalisation of Anglo, and NAMA. And still his stated aim of a properly functioning banking sector has not happened.

Wouldn't have regarded the levy as a budget as it didn't do anything on the expenditure side, nor did it effect 1.5m in the private sector at that time but take your underlying point.

The "pension" levy was only part of a package of expenditure cuts. It's the one that got the headlines - cuts in the early childcare supplement weren't public sector only, and Farm waste management payment delays didn't hit the public sector. But anyway, that's what I was counting as the three, which was the main point.

Again I would defend him saying our expenditure was based income from on the three card trick of property and associated taxes, (stamp, VAT, Capital Gains etc) and not something he designed.

He was lucky he wasn't a member of the Government benches, and a Junior Minister, who voted for all those policies....

[Fr Damo]

[QUOTE]

Best politicians? Lets see.

He was given the job of finance minister with no qualifications for the role. He was a barrister, not an accountant. This is someone who doesn't fully read financial reports, and "welcomed" a highly critical IMF report on this country last year.

While obvioulsy it would help and certainly give the economy stupid "re assurance" if he was an qualified charterd accountant but know plenty of accountants who couldn't manage a a nun shoot in an nunnery to coin one of my favorite sayings. At his level of delegation he does not need to know any of the FRS rules on financial reporting.
On the IMF, why wouldn't he welcome it, it gave him the leverage to implement some of the actions carried out in the last 12 months. Most of which obviously I support (i'm not FF, in fact I voted labour last time)

The figures he calculated his first budget on, were wildly way off the mark. So bad, that he needed to introduce a pension levy, and an emergency budget within 6 months. None of which contributed to cutting the public deficit. In fact, it increased it by 2 billion.

Alot of this was some poor take on VAT returns due to, VRT, and huge increases in social welfare spend after the builders holiday that started on dec 23 2008. It limited the increase in public deficit to 2" billion

NAMA has been established involving €54 billion, while this week, the first of his fines in his latest budget kick in. Hitting the lowest rung of society by €8 per week, and only if they are over 25. Even more draconian if you're under it. Interesting to see him praising his doctors in his radio interview. The very same doctors he's hitting in the pocket again this week.

I think NAMA valuations (on which the whole concepts pivots) are more than questionable and worry. However, property prices do return so if it means waiting 12 years instead of ten then so be it. I don't know the fine details on it, obviously few do due to the manner it was pushed through. My only hope on it Alan Ahearn isn't far away. Did Morgan Kelly publish his yet?

On the social, IMO, it had to be cut, as per my previous posts.

Germany is surrounded by cheaper non-Euro neighbours, however I've yet to see millions of Herren flocking to Poland, Czech Republic, Denmark, or Switzerland for cheaper goods every weekend, or when on strike. And Germany isn't the cheapest country in the world.

Surprised at you mypost. Germany has 60million huns, the vast majority live Rhine Rhur and through the center. Are they going to drive for two days for cheap Pop and Ice cream? Na.
Do they on the borders? Dunno but probably!
How many southerners as a % of 4millon travel on a monthly basis? I would say 4% i.e 100,000.

Bruton I have lots of time for, god help us if Labour get in (with FF or FG) cos the Unions will hinder any form of recovery.

[Fr Damo]

He was lucky he wasn't a member of the Government benches, and a Junior Minister, who voted for all those policies....

Is that a question, a statement, opinion or.........

That's twice in two days you've used sarcasm against me Macy, although you use it as a line of war far against "stupidity" as you put it, it's disingenuous IMO.
Your sentiment casts an opinion that you are more superior than every body in the FF Government of now now and old. May I suggest, you stop reading that Dunuphy wanna be, Dave Mc-Whats-his-face.

[Macy]

You are exempting him from responsibility because he wasn't in Finance. He has collective responsibility for those decisions as he voted for them, and was a member of the Government that made them. He was complicit in the three card trick that you say wasn't his making.

[Fr Damo]

You are exempting him from responsibility because he wasn't in Finance. He has collective responsibility for those decisions as he voted for them, and was a member of the Government that made them. He was complicit in the three card trick that you say wasn't his making.

Thank you.

I don't support FF (as I keep saying) and do you think a back bencher would have any sway at cabinate level with B Ahearn, C McCreevy and a vew others holding the power. They were all close to Charlie, P Flynn et all and would have got no soot.
All I am saying is if B Lenihan was in the dail perhaps 5 years earlier, (i.e 1990) he would have been closer to the cabinate when this kicked off in 97 and I honestly believe in this chaps ability and integrety that I don't believe we would have made such a bo*ix of things with him and a couple of others.
He is streets ahead of Ahern (a PR Master) and Cowan (obviously intellectual but with no back bone or leadership).

What do people think about him staying on while receiving treatment? I read somewhere else he'll have to cut back on his hours as well.

I think someone else should come in, at least for the short term.

I think for now, things will be okay but agree that as time elapses things will get difficult for him. Yes, it would make sence to have someone else lined up as planned B but I worry who? I hear he rand Richard Bruton and Joan burton on Sunday night to explain things prior to his press conference. Could they be allowed to have an input on managing or who they want to work within the FF policies even from a far?
In the National interest of course.

[Macy]

He was a Junior Minister, so he was a member of Government. Irrespective, there were plenty of people saying the direction being taken was wrong. So he either wasn't paying attention and just followed the whip, or he agreed with the policies. Either way he is culpable.

If he's not capable to do his job during treatment it's up to FF to step up, not the opposition. That's just the FF wet dream of a national government by the back door - shared responsibility for having to clear up their mess.

[bennocelt]

Another mess from the budget was the increasing of home fuels - Coal, Brickets, etc
Just got some Polish coal today - a full bag for 13 Euros, in shops its 17/18. All the way from Poland. Everyone around here is buying Polish coal and brickets - hilarious stuff when you consider Bord na Mona are only up the road!!!!

[John83]

Another mess from the budget was the increasing of home fuels - Coal, Brickets, etc
Just got some Polish coal today - a full bag for 13 Euros, in shops its 17/18. All the way from Poland. Everyone around here is buying Polish coal and brickets - hilarious stuff when you consider Bord na Mona are only up the road!!!!

All the more so when you consider the disastrous consequences of rising fuel costs for the elderly poor in one of the coldest Christmas periods I can remember.

[mypost]

All I am saying is if B Lenihan was in the dail perhaps 5 years earlier, (i.e 1990) he would have been closer to the cabinate when this kicked off in 97 and I honestly believe in this chaps ability and integrety that I don't believe we would have made such a bo*ix of things with him and a couple of others.

The Lenihan's have had someone in the Dail for the past 30-40 years. 3 of them are in the present Dail. 2 of them are in the current cabinet. You won't get more experience than them.

And they still can't run the country well.

[Fr Damo]

The Lenihan's have had someone in the Dail for the past 30-40 years. 3 of them are in the present Dail. 2 of them are in the current cabinet. You won't get more experience than them.

And they still can't run the country well.

Old B Lenihan was way before my time and cannot comment. Wouldn't have been a fan however, sterotypical I think of FF during the 60s, 70s and early 80s.
Conor Lenihan, is his brother and off topic.
Brain Lenihan was a the "leading edge" (sarcasm Macy) of political decesions during his time as a back bencher from 96-2002 and thrust forward into the sharp end as "Minister for Children" from 02-07. In 2007 he was promted by Bertie in a reshuffle to Justice minister (to much applause in the house) and when Bertie finally went in 08 Biffo made him No.2. The brown stuff was well and truly on the fan blades at that stage.

He was a Junior Minister, so he was a member of Government. Irrespective, there were plenty of people saying the direction being taken was wrong. So he either wasn't paying attention and just followed the whip, or he agreed with the policies. Either way he is culpable.

If he's not capable to do his job during treatment it's up to FF to step up, not the opposition. That's just the FF wet dream of a national government by the back door - shared responsibility for having to clear up their mess.

So you would rather let FF make a complete and utter Balls (instead of just a Balls) of things by giving Dempsey, D Ahern or Hanifin a whirl? (these clowns are going full term!)
The is about now, perception is reality, the markets have faith in Lenihan's actions (iseq up 5% on the back of CRH and the banks yesterday) this means banks "might" be able to borrow from abroad again and money "might" free up. Lots of ifs I knoiw but it's better than, " Mr Bank Manager can I have 10k overdraft till June please" and the Answer being a straight "no."

I'd be worried that without B Lenihan for say 6months or a very credible replacement, the recovery could be delayed another year or two and as people are saying 2011/12 I'd be fearful of what another year or two will do.
I suppose that's my underlying point on all this and will leave it there!

[mypost]

Saying that there will be recovery in 2011/12 is imo, hopelessly optimistic.

[Fr Damo]

Fair enough, think there is another thread(s) on that one. A general election or a "less credible" finance minister might mean it takes longer than our current course, that's all I ment.

[dahamsta]

Recovery is a matter of definition and, has been said, belongs in another thread. Back on topic please.

Personally I'm finding it hard to believe that the political kingdoms that are partly responsible for Ireland's continued corruption and incompetence appear to be a-ok with some.

[Fr Damo]

Adam,

Political kingdom, you mean FF, right, and not Lenihan/ORourke? I'll be voting them out like the rest of us come the time. For now I think we have trimmed the aircraft to ride the turbalance. Alter the configeration and we could end up falling like a stone.
We may never have majority government in this country, if Brian Lenihan was independant i'd like to see him at the top table, that all.

[dahamsta]

Political kingdom, you mean FF, right, and not Lenihan/ORourke?

I mean all of them, in every party. Open your eyes man.

[Fr Damo]

Shane Ross is of the same of view of myself..... not that it means i'm right or anything but but I value his views, & confirms, maybe to myself alone, I'm not completly mad!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...e-2007137.html

Someone said here last week that Lenihan wasn't qualified to be in charge of the books because he wasn't an accountant, an accountant like Haughy, McCreevey and Ahern (who I think was a book keeper, nothing wrong with that btw) so it's fairly clear accounts don't make the best ministers of Finance!!

[NeilMcD]

Wow shock horror, you value someone who has the same view as yourself!!! Now there is a turn up for the books.

When the whole cut cut cut argument was being put forward by Lenihan and others, and you agreed. I think I said that the problem was that it was an accountants budget. In that it makes sense on balance sheet level but not at societal level.

Also Shane Ross thinks its more important that the Minister for Finance talks to him than go to other more important meetings. Shane Ross is a cheer leader of right wing free market ultra capilasim so of course he is going to cheer lead a minister who believes in this also.

[Fr Damo]

When the whole cut cut cut argument was being put forward by Lenihan and others, and you agreed. I think I said that the problem was that it was an accountants budget. In that it makes sense on balance sheet level but not at societal level.

I could draw a football comparision very easily Neil. Pat Fenlon / Dundee United. For the greater good and interests of P Fenlon, and on the back of all he has done for Bohs shouldn't ye have let him persue pastures new rather than bohs very short term objective (survival), that without him and a bad year, you guys are the next big club to go bang? (by all accounts that could happen with him too!)

We are obviously polar opposites on Lenihan (and I would say other issues) when words such as right wing and capitalism are mentioned much emotion takes hold (on all sides) I maintain what I said regarding integraty and ability and I believe his decesions are as close to money as anybody else in that house. Who would you have in the hot seat (out of them all) and what policies would you like to implement?