So who's out and who's in?

[KK77]

Will Robbie Doyle be resigning for us does anyone know? Heard he's been let go from Sporting Fingal by Liam Buckley.

[Roo69]

The people of Bray might have more to do with their money than go and watch Bray. Also throw in the fact the times we live in. Crowds have always been small enough in Bray so look closer to home than to just blame the people of Bray. Maybe some think they might get more for their money doing something other than watch Bray. Can remember around 2001 when times were better and we had a great sponsorship deal (with who i just can't remember at the moment) and instead of using the money wisely some of it was spent on paying for the players to stay in Druids Glen the night before the Bohs FAI Cup game. What a waste of money i thought. Lets be honest paying hard earned cash to pay wages for some of the shapers that have played for the club no way i have heard many say and i couldn't argue with them.

2 examples of towns similar to Bray would be Sligo and Dundalk. Both teams are very similar in stature and size in terms of population to Bray, yet both clubs have always had larger crowds than Bray on a consistent basis, Even when Bray were in the Premier and Dundalk in the first they still got bigger crowds than Bray. So what’s the difference between people from Bray and people from Sligo or Dundalk? Why do people from these towns get out and support their local club and people from Bray don’t? On average I reckon the amount of people who are from Bray or the areas close by for each home game going to our games would be less than 700, the rest would be made up of away fans. Bray has a population of about 40,000, the rest of Wicklow must be 100,000? Then the likes of Shankill, Dun Laoghaire etc must be about 250,000? Gives a huge potential fan base of people who support a football team, but as with most people in this country they are only interested in the glamour of the game and world stars, that’s just not Bray, its all over the country. But, for a town of our size and a club of our stature and comparing us to similar size clubs around the country we are much less supported. In my opinion the people of Bray, most of them are not interested in seeing the club grow or be successful. As you said people see better value for their money elsewhere such as pubs, nightclubs, shopping and going over to watch the team they support in the UK or further afield. To me it doesn’t really have anything to do with the times we are in, it has been like that for years.

It is not just Bray Wanderers that the people of Bray don’t get behind and support. Bray Emmets, one of the top 6 or so GAA clubs in the county get very little local support, even events like the summerfest when big name bands are playing don’t get involved enough.

“Lets be honest paying hard earned cash to pay wages for some of the shapers that have played for the club no way I have heard many say and I couldn't argue with them”

That statement really says it for me and the mentality and small town attitude that a lot of people in Bray would hold. Because they don’t like the look of a player or because they have heard a story about them they couldn’t be arsed but on the same hand they would give money to their team in the UK in the form of jerseys, tickets etc even though players are doing the very same if not worse in most cases. Tell me why they would support a foreign shaper and not a local shaper?

That’s just the way a lot of people in this country are, Bray especially! I put it down to a touch of jealousy and ignorance.

And as far as I know Robbie Doyle has been talking with 2 clubs, one from the Premier and one from the First, who are not Bray.

[KK77]

2 examples of towns similar to Bray would be Sligo and Dundalk. Both teams are very similar in stature and size in terms of population to Bray, yet both clubs have always had larger crowds than Bray on a consistent basis, Even when Bray were in the Premier and Dundalk in the first they still got bigger crowds than Bray. So what’s the difference between people from Bray and people from Sligo or Dundalk? Why do people from these towns get out and support their local club and people from Bray don’t? On average I reckon the amount of people who are from Bray or the areas close by for each home game going to our games would be less than 700, the rest would be made up of away fans. Bray has a population of about 40,000, the rest of Wicklow must be 100,000? Then the likes of Shankill, Dun Laoghaire etc must be about 250,000? Gives a huge potential fan base of people who support a football team, but as with most people in this country they are only interested in the glamour of the game and world stars, that’s just not Bray, its all over the country. But, for a town of our size and a club of our stature and comparing us to similar size clubs around the country we are much less supported. In my opinion the people of Bray, most of them are not interested in seeing the club grow or be successful. As you said people see better value for their money elsewhere such as pubs, nightclubs, shopping and going over to watch the team they support in the UK or further afield. To me it doesn’t really have anything to do with the times we are in, it has been like that for years.

It is not just Bray Wanderers that the people of Bray don’t get behind and support. Bray Emmets, one of the top 6 or so GAA clubs in the county get very little local support, even events like the summerfest when big name bands are playing don’t get involved enough.

“Lets be honest paying hard earned cash to pay wages for some of the shapers that have played for the club no way I have heard many say and I couldn't argue with them”

That statement really says it for me and the mentality and small town attitude that a lot of people in Bray would hold. Because they don’t like the look of a player or because they have heard a story about them they couldn’t be arsed but on the same hand they would give money to their team in the UK in the form of jerseys, tickets etc even though players are doing the very same if not worse in most cases. Tell me why they would support a foreign shaper and not a local shaper?
That’s just the way a lot of people in this country are, Bray especially! I put it down to a touch of jealousy and ignorance.

And as far as I know Robbie Doyle has been talking with 2 clubs, one from the Premier and one from the First, who are not Bray.

Better value for money more quality?? Ronaldo or a LOI shaper?

Thanks for the info on Robbie Doyle.

[peadar1987]

Better value for money more quality?? Ronaldo or a LOI shaper.

The LOI shaper any day of the week! I hate that guy! And I think it's easy for kids to get caught up in the glamour of the big teams and fancy players, I am ashamed to say that I was a Man U "supporter" until I was about 12, when my dad first took me to see his local team, Stoke, and I was hooked. There's no excuse for anyone over the age of 14 to be a rabid supporter of a team they have no connection with (But that's a rant on a completely different, very tired topic!)

Bray has a population of about 40,000, the rest of Wicklow must be 100,000? Then the likes of Shankill, Dun Laoghaire etc must be about 250,000?

Actually, when I was very bored, I pulled up the figures from the last census, and worked out the potential catchment areas for the LOI. If you're interested:

The ones in italics are the largest areas without an LOI team. I worked it out taking any decent sized towns within about 15 or 20 miles, without another LOI club closer.

Cork: 209 000
Shams: 199 000
UCD: 175 000
Bohs: 165 000
Pat's: 164 000
Fingal: 153 000
Galway: 145 000 (Excluding Salthill and Mervue)
Derry: 134 000
Shels: 125 000
Bray: 122 000
Limerick: 112 000
Waterford: 99 000
Kildare: 99 000
Navan: 92000
Tralee: 90 000
Drogheda: 85 000
Castlebar: 81 000
Sligo: 70 000
Dundalk: 60 000
Wexford: 60 000
Cobh: 59 000
Harps: 57 000
Portlaoise: 55 000
Kilkenny: 54 000
Monaghan: 50 000
Athlone: 43 000
Mullingar: 43 000
Tullamore: 43 000
Carlow: 43 000
Mallow/Mitchelstown: 37 000
Longford: 35 000

[lowflyingseagul]

really bored

[peadar1987]

really bored

You have no idea mate!

[KR's Post]

Anto is right. Alot of these clubs are signing players, paying big wages hoping to be succesful. Bray did it in 2001. We had possibly the best squad in the league. Tresson, Gormley, Tarzan, Jayo, Paul Keegan, Barry o connor, Matt britton, Stephen fox, Gifford, John Walsh, Thomas Morgan, Davy williamson, Wesley, Jody Lynch, Pip to name but a few. I'm sure they were all on fairly good wages and they only finished 4th! Albeit only 12 or so points behind Boh's, it still wasn't good enough even for a european spot. It does show you though that a Succesful team brings in crowds. The last game we needed to beat pats and hope shels beat cork. We beat pats in front of over 4000 fans at carlisle but cork beat shels unfortunately. But 4000, now 2k was pats i presume but what a crowd. Show's the potential. Bray should have way more fans, i was always frustrated seeing sweet fa in the carlisle and us being outnumbered by opposition fans but the thing that really got me was this...... I had mates that used to slag me for going to Bray matches, that just sums things up. I had mates also that used to ask me how bray got on, but i would say, why don't ya go yourself next week and find out and they'd laugh in my face. Sums the whole town up. There is potential there but attitudes need to change big time!

[tippex]

Guys this has been a much discussed topic and the only consensus that can really be agreed on is that more people need to get involved with the club.
There seems to be a general malaise about the town when it comes to everything. People moan but will not get off their arses to do anything about it (I'm not innocent when it comes to this).

We can all argue and disagree about different aspects of how things are being done and get nowhere.

But there is a group of guys who are very passionate about the club and helping it move forward in a way that hasnt happened before and it is everyones opportunity now to help make the club better and get it in a position over the next few years where the town are excited about the club and the league.

So lets all pull together to the common goal of making the club a better club, bringing the buzz back into the town about the club and making sure that in the future there is a club there for us to support.

[CF1989]

off topic but not worth starting a thread over......

heard we might be playing ye in a friendly on 6th of Feb, anyone hear anything?

[Stevo Da Gull]

I'd say that the issue of attendances in the LOI is an issue of national importance. It sums up the attitude of the common man in this country not just in regards to supporting local football, but with regards to social responsibility/conscience, sense of community and so forth. The attitude to everything is 'what's in it for me, right now'. It's a short sighted view with no thought for what could be achieved with a bit of effort, and certainly no thought of 'what can I give to my country/community'.

The sad thing is, the number of people supporting the league haven't been able to make a huge difference to the game down the years. Most of us who put our time and money into supporting our teams, aren't seeing progress. Instead we are basically putting our time and money into simply keeping our clubs alive. So it's very easy to become disheartened and think, what's the point?

The big question is how we change things.. and right now I just want to eat breakfast. But a few suggestions which are good in theory include:

Greater fan involvement in how clubs are run: If people feel like they have a say/control then they're more likely to take an interest.
Bray have tried to get more fan involvement, but with mixed results, at best.

GAA/Rubgy style adverstising: I started following Rugby a lot more while I was away. One of the first things that I saw when I got back to Dublin were the Leinster rugby 'Blue Magic' ad boards, and they are brilliant. The problem is having the money to advertise, which the league doesn't.

Grass roots football: People might be more likely to support Bray Wanderers, if they played for Bray Wdrs under 8's, 12's etc or if as adults they play for a Bray Wanderers amateur team. To put this system in place you either need a lot of money, or a fair bit of help from other areas of the community. Again, neither is in plentiful supply. But I do think that this area is crucial and would be the number 1 priority for me, if this didn't establish a sense of pride in your club - I don't know what would. Even for those who didn't play, there would be so many ways to be involved with the various teams, and everyone would know someone who represents Bray (or their local LOI team) at some level.

Anyhow, breakfast time.

[Riddickcule]

But there is a group of guys who are very passionate about the club and helping it move forward in a way that hasnt happened before and it is everyones opportunity now to help make the club better and get it in a position over the next few years where the town are excited about the club and the league.

So lets all pull together to the common goal of making the club a better club, bringing the buzz back into the town about the club and making sure that in the future there is a club there for us to support.

Yes and how exactly can we help bring the club forward?
See we need to know what the plans are before we can get involved !

The basic, bottom line problem in the Loi is money, the lack of it.

Now i feel this needs to be solved from the top, thats what the Fai should be doing right now, pumping far more money into the system, but they're not doing that.
Thats where Platinum One came in, they were commited to creating a new league, a fresh start for our game.And we shot them down.

Sure Bray wern't going to be involved, but for the sake of the whole game i want them to run things.
We say clubs are being mismanaged, true but its a very few of the whole league, and in general its always bacause of the actions of a few that drag this league down.(eg. Coughlan)
But most clubs are stable(incl. us), well managed and can thrive if there is more time and energy and cash put into the system, which i feel Platinum One gave us that chance.

[thedoyler]

Just flicking through the comments here and I don't think this reason has been mentioned with regard to the attendances. Unfortunately with its close proximity to Dublin, Bray is obviously a commuter town where Dubs and others from around the country have settled because they cannot afford to live any closer. These people are not native to the area and have passions for their own clubs and pass these interests on to their children. In my experience having lived in Bray for four decades now you are far more likely to encounter a passionate native in a Sligo or a Waterford than Bray unfortunately. This in no way a criticism of the people in Bray but just a fact that if they aren't from Bray originally they have no obligation to follow the Wanderers. If I moved to town for work would I support Pats/Bohs? No.

[peadar1987]

Just flicking through the comments here and I don't think this reason has been mentioned with regard to the attendances. Unfortunately with its close proximity to Dublin, Bray is obviously a commuter town where Dubs and others from around the country have settled because they cannot afford to live any closer. These people are not native to the area and have passions for their own clubs and pass these interests on to their children. In my experience having lived in Bray for four decades now you are far more likely to encounter a passionate native in a Sligo or a Waterford than Bray unfortunately. This in no way a criticism of the people in Bray but just a fact that if they aren't from Bray originally they have no obligation to follow the Wanderers. If I moved to town for work would I support Pats/Bohs? No.

Good point, but there are people who will. I still count myself a Bray supporter, but since moving to Edinburgh, I've been going to a few Hibs games. Likewise, my dad still considers himself a Stoke supporter (as do I), but he still goes down to the Carlisle on a regular basis.

[Stevo Da Gull]

If a Sligo fan, for example, moved to Bray, I'd expect them to go to Bray matches to keep in touch with the league. The non-natives who don't go probably wouldn't go to any league game, which is the case with the majority of the population. Of course, fans from Dublin teams have easy access to their own clubs via the dart/bus, so you're right in that regard thedoyler.

[Roo69]

David Tyrrel and Franco training with us at present with a view to signing so i've heard.

[Hulsey]

David Tyrrel and Franco training with us at present with a view to signing so i've heard.

Wouldn't be two bad signings for the first division imo. If Eddie actually plays Franco I believe he will score goals for us.

[peadar1987]

Wouldn't be two bad signings for the first division imo. If Eddie actually plays Franco I believe he will score goals for us.

He couldn't do a worse job than this season's strike force. Bags of talent there, but they just looked too lightweight, and always got muscled off the ball in promising positions.

[Riddickcule]

If a Sligo fan, for example, moved to Bray, I'd expect them to go to Bray matches to keep in touch with the league. The non-natives who don't go probably wouldn't go to any league game, which is the case with the majority of the population. Of course, fans from Dublin teams have easy access to their own clubs via the dart/bus, so you're right in that regard thedoyler.

Well thats what i'd do like say i moved down to Cark i'd probably end up heading down to the Cross every second week or else i'd be lost without football

[notever]

2 examples of towns similar to Bray would be Sligo and Dundalk. Both teams are very similar in stature and size in terms of population to Bray, yet both clubs have always had larger crowds than Bray on a consistent basis, Even when Bray were in the Premier and Dundalk in the first they still got bigger crowds than Bray. So what’s the difference between people from Bray and people from Sligo or Dundalk? Why do people from these towns get out and support their local club and people from Bray don’t? On average I reckon the amount of people who are from Bray or the areas close by for each home game going to our games would be less than 700, the rest would be made up of away fans. Bray has a population of about 40,000, the rest of Wicklow must be 100,000? Then the likes of Shankill, Dun Laoghaire etc must be about 250,000? Gives a huge potential fan base of people who support a football team, but as with most people in this country they are only interested in the glamour of the game and world stars, that’s just not Bray, its all over the country. But, for a town of our size and a club of our stature and comparing us to similar size clubs around the country we are much less supported. In my opinion the people of Bray, most of them are not interested in seeing the club grow or be successful. As you said people see better value for their money elsewhere such as pubs, nightclubs, shopping and going over to watch the team they support in the UK or further afield. To me it doesn’t really have anything to do with the times we are in, it has been like that for years.

It is not just Bray Wanderers that the people of Bray don’t get behind and support. Bray Emmets, one of the top 6 or so GAA clubs in the county get very little local support, even events like the summerfest when big name bands are playing don’t get involved enough.

“Lets be honest paying hard earned cash to pay wages for some of the shapers that have played for the club no way I have heard many say and I couldn't argue with them”

That statement really says it for me and the mentality and small town attitude that a lot of people in Bray would hold. Because they don’t like the look of a player or because they have heard a story about them they couldn’t be arsed but on the same hand they would give money to their team in the UK in the form of jerseys, tickets etc even though players are doing the very same if not worse in most cases. Tell me why they would support a foreign shaper and not a local shaper?

That’s just the way a lot of people in this country are, Bray especially! I put it down to a touch of jealousy and ignorance.

And as far as I know Robbie Doyle has been talking with 2 clubs, one from the Premier and one from the First, who are not Bray.

I was born and reared in Bray and am a mad Bray fan but I am ashamed to say that Bray people never really supported anything in the Towm so it is a lot to ask them to support Bray Wanderers no matter who played for them shapers or otherwise. They will find excusesfor not supporting the boys in green, its sad but true and I cannot see that changing we will just have to carry on with the die hards..........

[Riddickcule]

There can be change, nothing is impossible.