What can be done to improve the League of Ireland?

[Scram]

32 counties – 32 teams – 2 divisions

Shamrock Rovers would be the Dublin team, St.Pats can go to Kildare and Bohs to Meath.

[peadar1987]

32 counties – 32 teams – 2 divisions

Shamrock Rovers would be the Dublin team, St.Pats can go to Kildare and Bohs to Meath.

I hope you're not being serious! How exactly are Leitrim Celtic or Roscommon United supposed to compete with a Shamrock Rovers side with a supporter base of over a million?!

As for the other ideas:

Any league structure needs some sort of relegation system. People are going to get bored if every season is just a complicated test to see whether you finish either 15th or 16th. Relegation is crap, (I should know, Bray have already been relegated twice this season!), but you need it to keep the interest up and stop the league from stagnating. I'd agree that playing the same teams 4 times gets a bit boring, so the challenge is to find a system that has each team playing the others twice, but still allows for a second tier. Other than that, the exact number doesn't really matter

Getting rid of clubs isn't going to attract new supporters (I had to laugh at roinuj. Sporting Fingal have had a higher average attendance than Waterford this season, and UCD won the first division playing some great football. Hardly contributing nothing to the league!)

Other than that, I think the two key things about improving the league are as follows:

-Stability: The FAI have to work outa credible system of financial regulation, and enforce it strictly. Once clubs are no longer staggering from crisis to crisis, we can concentrate on building a support base

-Promotion: The league is not going to grow if we don't promote it. We need saturation advertising of it. Everyone should know who their local team is, when and where they are playing, and how they are doing. There should be posters up everywhere, and the clubs should be a visible presence in the community. A decent advertising campaign shouldn't cost more than a few hundred euro a week, and will definitely pull in more punters than an extra "barman"

[bishbash]

I think there can only be one division. to be honest the interest in the premier division was low so what chance has a division below it. The idea of an all Ireland league is really an intriguing one. the likes of a cork v linfield fixture in a league basis is an attrctive one or a glentoran v shamrock rovers. this type of league with with extensive media coverage could be an exciting prospect. the division itself could come under a different governing body, for example, the spl or the premier league.

[bennocelt]

.

As far as I'm concerned, its up to us who go to games to increase the attendance. I've brought many friends and family to games over the years, and its taken weeks of pestering to get them to go the first time. Most of them have been back and go to around 5 or 6 games a season, some of them even have season tickets now, and the ones who never came back again are in the minority.

Its the way to do it, if everyone brings a mate then your attendance has doubled. Granted it doesn't solve the wider licensing/structure issues but it must be accepted that the heart of all the wider problems lie in the fact that people don't go to matches.

yeah thats what I have done as well - brought at least 3 different people to LOI games this year and out of that 2 are now regular LOI fans, one getting a season ticket for next year as well!!(every little helps!)
When people experience the live game and the fun and the singing it def does give you a bug for more

[blackholesun]

Nice to see some good ideas on this thread.

But talk of games on Saturday or Sunday afternoons is crazy-talk. Saturday nights @ 7 has worked really well in Tallaght. It easy for people nearby to bring their kids along and its not too late getting home. Plus for older people, the game is over at 9, so still plenty of time to get back to the local or head out into town for the night. Plus Saturdays means its easy for away fans to come to the games which means a better atmosphere at the games.

I also think the league should consider a wildcard system where one club a year gets bumped up from the first division. This could not be given to teams just relegated so e.g. a club like Athlone who have done great work on the new ground should get bumped up for a year to give them a chance in the Premier in the new ground. Such a system would help ease the misery of being stuck in div1 for years and help reward clubs who are getting their acts together.

bhs

[Doomofman]

Definitely think the Saturday night matches would be a good idea... Although it could encourage drinking before game which could lead to increased crowd trouble but it would certainly help for away games.

[pineapple stu]

I like Friday matches; something to look forward to at the end of the working week. Also like taking half-days for away games; builds them up a little bit.

[kd16]

I agree about Friday games, I love looking forward to them all day, flying home from work, lashing is some dinner, grabbing the scraf and back out the door.

Having said I can't see that feeling being shared by the people we want to entice to the games.

[peadar1987]

I agree about Friday games, I love looking forward to them all day, flying home from work, lashing is some dinner, grabbing the scraf and back out the door.

Having said I can't see that feeling being shared by the people we want to entice to the games.

I like Friday games as well. Before I left Ireland, my dad worked evenings, and I was in college all day, so I'd rarely see him from Monday to Thursday. It was great to come home on a Friday, walk down to the Carlisle, order an Indian on the way there, and pick it up on the way back home. I'd look forward to it all week, quite apart from the pleasure of watching Bray play.

Anyway, sentimentality aside, I would have been to a lot less games had they been on Saturday afternoons, as I was playing my own sport every Saturday, often trekking half way across Leinster to do so. I'd say a lot of potential LOI fans would be in the same situation.

[BohDiddley]

Shamrock Rovers would be the Dublin team, St.Pats can go to Kildare and Bohs to Meath.

Cough.

[Riddickcule]

We have two seasons left with the current participation agreement, let that run it's course, if we nearly implode so be it.I'd rather have a league with history than starting afresh with franchises.
We can make it work, i might be going mad but the more i hear bad news the better it makes me feel, as long as the club doesn't bust i'm happy because i think we are slowly reaching the tip of the iceberg.

The next two seasons should be all about getting financial stability.The more we hear of Derry, Cork, Bohs etc. the bigger kick up the arse the clubs (should) be given.Most clubs are playing by the rules, Bray, Rovers, Sligo, St Pats to name but a few, i'd agree with Fran Gavin in saying that it's only a handful of folk that are bringing the league into disrepute.

In terms of a revised league format, i'd go for a 16 team PD, for 2010 and 2011.(the last two years of the Participation agreement)
It works a charm in Norway, which has relatively the same population.Next i would scrap the A Championship, bring the non-league clubs, Tralee, Carlow, Tullamore and Castlebar, Cobh and Kildare into the mix of the FD.
Heres the most unrealistic bit, i'd chuck Mervue and Salthill out of the Loi altogether, it's just not viable having 3 clubs in Galway.

2012 imo brings us to a crossroads, AIL or not? Platinum one AIL or FAI/IFA AIL? OR no AIL at all??

Sorry for being negative but in my view i don't like the idea of an AIL with seperate national teams.So if in the unlikely event that the FAI and the IFA were to merge, an AIL would be inevitable.

Pending we don't go AIL, i'd negotiate a new Participation Agreement with the FAI in 2012, the clubs can't run themselves, no argument there.
Most successful european leagues which we should look up to (Denmark, Norway, Sweden etc.) are all run by the respective national associations.

It would be like a clean slate, Hopefully by then the clubs will have copped on and we can move forward.I'd still have the 16 team PD with a 16 team FD bringing Portlaoise, Kilkenny, Clonmel and Mullingar into the fold.
I would switch back to a winter format (awaiting confrontation) with similar timeframe to England, Scotland etc.
However, my renewed k.o time would be 7.00pm, Saturday.With live games held on Sundays.
If the league is stable and transparent and hopefully the aul' economy will be back on track, clubs can be fit to apply for grants to improve Stadia/Training Facilities.
A new Marketing plan will have to be upheld, the one area which is a farce under FAI control.
A reasonable marketing budget eg. 1,000,000 euro, will be required to market this product properly.

As we are on a clean slate, a new and improved Broadcasting deal should be organised, by the Fai with consultation of the clubs.
The current tv fee's are paltry imo.



Theres only so much i can write, but this might only be the begining...

[Strongbow10]

Nice to see some good ideas on this thread.

But talk of games on Saturday or Sunday afternoons is crazy-talk. Saturday nights @ 7 has worked really well in Tallaght. It easy for people nearby to bring their kids along and its not too late getting home. Plus for older people, the game is over at 9, so still plenty of time to get back to the local or head out into town for the night. Plus Saturdays means its easy for away fans to come to the games which means a better atmosphere at the games.

I also think the league should consider a wildcard system where one club a year gets bumped up from the first division. This could not be given to teams just relegated so e.g. a club like Athlone who have done great work on the new ground should get bumped up for a year to give them a chance in the Premier in the new ground. Such a system would help ease the misery of being stuck in div1 for years and help reward clubs who are getting their acts together.

bhs

Ya wouldn't be from Athlone by any chance ??

Athlone is a club with potential though, nice stadium and its a soccer town at heart. Premier division football would really attract big crowds in a town like Athlone.

[roinuj]

All clubs should be obliged to have ticket scanners and provide official, un-fudge-able attendance figures. No we do/we don't include season ticket holders. The FAI should either provide the facilities to do this or else incentivise it somehow.

This will prevent clubs saying they're getting 2,000 people through the gates when in reality they're only getting 1,500. They'll then be forced to budget accordingly for gate receipts.

just like sligo done against waterford.
saying there was only 4000 at the match when the dogs on the street knew there was at least 6000

[roinuj]

32 counties – 32 teams – 2 divisions

Shamrock Rovers would be the Dublin team, St.Pats can go to Kildare and Bohs to Meath.

rovers bohs and shels to merge as one and pats go to meath

[jebus]

2012 imo brings us to a crossroads, AIL or not? Platinum one AIL or FAI/IFA AIL? OR no AIL at all??

Maybe that's what the Mayans were on about

[forza rovers]

get rid of the shower that run attempt to run it would be a start

[Scram]

I hope you're not being serious! How exactly are Leitrim Celtic or Roscommon United supposed to compete with a Shamrock Rovers side with a supporter base of over a million?!

As for the other ideas:

Any league structure needs some sort of relegation system. People are going to get bored if every season is just a complicated test to see whether you finish either 15th or 16th. Relegation is crap, (I should know, Bray have already been relegated twice this season!), but you need it to keep the interest up and stop the league from stagnating. I'd agree that playing the same teams 4 times gets a bit boring, so the challenge is to find a system that has each team playing the others twice, but still allows for a second tier. Other than that, the exact number doesn't really matter

Getting rid of clubs isn't going to attract new supporters (I had to laugh at roinuj. Sporting Fingal have had a higher average attendance than Waterford this season, and UCD won the first division playing some great football. Hardly contributing nothing to the league!)

Other than that, I think the two key things about improving the league are as follows:

-Stability: The FAI have to work outa credible system of financial regulation, and enforce it strictly. Once clubs are no longer staggering from crisis to crisis, we can concentrate on building a support base

-Promotion: The league is not going to grow if we don't promote it. We need saturation advertising of it. Everyone should know who their local team is, when and where they are playing, and how they are doing. There should be posters up everywhere, and the clubs should be a visible presence in the community. A decent advertising campaign shouldn't cost more than a few hundred euro a week, and will definitely pull in more punters than an extra "barman"

Not totally serious!

But you can see where I am coming from as regards support etc.

Much easier to get motivated if it was your county against another county as in the GAA. If you look at the EPL, Portsmouth, Hull etc. small enough places as far as I know but good lot of support and mainly from home grown fans i.e. as opposed to Man U whose Fans are from Essex and Dublin etc.!

I’m surprised actually that Cork City struggle because Cork people are fairly fanatic about anything with Cork in it.

[culloty82]

Any improvements have to be done by individual clubs in their own towns, one thing the English and Scottish clubs share with the GAA is that the teams are firmly rooted in the community. Set up club academies from U-6 to senior, the aim being that up to six players in the first XI would be from the area, with links to the local junior league also bringing in fresh talent. Players would coach in local schools, promote local companies, making clubs highly visible in return for strips being advertised in sports shops, help from councils and enterprise in developing grounds, etc. Nationally, the FAI need to do a high-profile TV ad campaign for the League, broadcasting deals with Setanta and Newstalk, maybe free entry to your local LoI ground when you buy an Ireland ticket. I'll admit half these ideas mightn't be realistic, just thought I'd add to the debate.

[peadar1987]

Not totally serious!

But you can see where I am coming from as regards support etc.

Much easier to get motivated if it was your county against another county as in the GAA. If you look at the EPL, Portsmouth, Hull etc. small enough places as far as I know but good lot of support and mainly from home grown fans i.e. as opposed to Man U whose Fans are from Essex and Dublin etc.!

I’m surprised actually that Cork City struggle because Cork people are fairly fanatic about anything with Cork in it.

You have a good point, but I can't see the rivalry between say, Clare and Louth being anywhere near as bitter as the rivalry between Northside and Southside Dublin, or the rivalry between Sporting Fingal and a real club!

There's no need for Cork to struggle. AFAIK, they were getting great attendances until the series of financial crises destroyed their confidence in their club. I don't think it's really sold to them that much, either. If home games were all marketed as the chance to **** off Dublin people, there'd be far higher attendances!

Any improvements have to be done by individual clubs in their own towns, one thing the English and Scottish clubs share with the GAA is that the teams are firmly rooted in the community. Set up club academies from U-6 to senior, the aim being that up to six players in the first XI would be from the area, with links to the local junior league also bringing in fresh talent. Players would coach in local schools, promote local companies, making clubs highly visible in return for strips being advertised in sports shops, help from councils and enterprise in developing grounds, etc. Nationally, the FAI need to do a high-profile TV ad campaign for the League, broadcasting deals with Setanta and Newstalk, maybe free entry to your local LoI ground when you buy an Ireland ticket. I'll admit half these ideas mightn't be realistic, just thought I'd add to the debate.

All great ideas! I'd say send this to the FAI.

I'd love to see a really professional national advertising campaign along the lines of:

Dramatic or inspiring music
<<Celebrating crowd>>

Derry fan: "It's about waiting 4 months for the first game of the season"

<<Footage of a goal at the Brandywell>>

Bohs fan: "It's about 2 titles in a row"

<<Title celebrations>>

Shams fan: "It's about finally being home"

<<Shot of TCS looking not-at-all crap>>

Cork fan: "It's about sending them back to Dublin empty handed, boy"

<<Footage of Turners Cross crowd having a grand auld time>>

Voice-over: "The League of Ireland. It's about football"

Caption: To find your local club, visit www.loi.ie

You could get a little "It's about..." section from about 10 or 15 clubs, and chop them around, making different combinations, just to keep things more interesting. I think it'd be really good, and help out attendances a lot.

[dong]

I see some great ideas on here as always when this discussion comes up (every two weeks!)
The thing is, the FAI have neither the will nor the initiative to implement any of these. Guaranteed if you get on to the FAI about promotion of the league they will send you a nice polite e mail back, outlining what they are doing in this area and basically claiming that they can do no more.
Bowsie's point about eradicating all the balls ups in the first instance is a perfectly good one but the fact is the promotion of the league is way behind what it needs to be. Very frustrating.