Giovanni Trappatoni - Well Done

**OwlsFan** · 15/12/2009, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by Scram

You rate our players based on some flawed EPL managers� views in order to support your contention that we don�t have high quality players!! I think you are another one suffering from the debilitating Irish inferiority complex. Take Richard Dunne for example, you say he shouldn�t be rated because Mark Hughes got rid of him�how ridiculous when it is 100% clear to anyone who knows anything about football that this was one of Hughes� biggest mistakes.

The performance against France showed what our team are capable of if let play and what we could have done had we been let play and Andy Reid being selected. (oops, I forgot his last performance v Fulham wasn�t his usual high standard, so forget about him too�.RIDICULOUS)

PS. Albania 6 Cyrpus 1

Didn't Cyprus draw with Germany in our previous group, lose to a last minute goal in Italy and also beat Bulgaria?

I would value an EPL manager's view over yours. Have you managed in the EPL?

You are judging the Irish team's ability on the basis of one performance? RIDICULOUS

Originally Posted by Emmet7

People say these days, how many of the current Irish team would get in the English squad, and most people would name a couple of names. Think back to the players Jack Charlton had available to him and it was a completely different story. He had an embarrassment of riches at his disposal, a golden generation of players to pick from and the majority of them would have made the English squad at the time if they were English, an English team that reached the WC Semi Finals.

He had Bonner, Irwin, Stauntan, Moran, McCarthy, Lawrenson, McGrath, Babb, Brady, Whelan, Keane, Houghtan, Sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn, Cascarino, Stapleton, Townsend, and many more players available to him. Most of these players would walk onto any International team of the time.

To be fair Emmet they weren't available all the time. You have listed players over the whole Charlton era.

**SkStu** · 15/12/2009, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Emmet7

People say these days, how many of the current Irish team would get in the English squad, and most people would name a couple of names.

Think back to the players Jack Charlton had available to him and it was a completely different story. He had an embarrassment of riches at his disposal, a golden generation of players to pick from and the majority of them would have made the English squad at the time if they were English, an English team that reached the WC Semi Finals.

He had Bonner, Irwin, Stauntan, Moran, McCarthy, Lawrenson, McGrath, Babb, Brady, Whelan, Keane, Houghtan, Sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn, Cascarino, Stapleton, Townsend, and many more players available to him. Most of these players would walk onto any International team of the time.

We have some good players now, but not near enough the number Charlton had.

Emmet, i totally agree with that post but you need to follow that line of thinking through its natural progression and ask yourself why this is. Is it simply a cycle or has english football changed since then and is the Irish national team suffering as a result? Would a successful domestic league that keeps some of its talent at home, at least until players reach a decent age, be more beneficial to the Irish national team?

You have raised an interesting point but there are hard questions that we need to ask ourselves and the answers are not all that simple.

**paul_oshea** · 15/12/2009, 2:56 PM

Far away hills are greener.

**tetsujin1979** · 15/12/2009, 4:13 PM

has Trapattoni improved the team? Yes, without doubt, anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless
is there room for improvement? Yes, of course there is. But it's minor changes to a successful formula, as opposed to major surgery on a near dead patient, as was the case when he took over.

Thank you Giovanni.

**OwlsFan** · 15/12/2009, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Far away hills are greener.

Not if you're in Russia in the winter.

StSku what's your definition of a "successful domestic league"?

**Colbert Report** · 15/12/2009, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Not if you're in Russia in the winter.

StSku what's your definition of a "successful domestic league"?

Healthy attendance coupled with success in international events (eg. Champions League).

The LOI have neither going for them.

**SkStu** · 15/12/2009, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

StSku what's your definition of a "successful domestic league"?

its all relative OwlsFan but for me, it would be regualr crowds of between 6000-8000 for the larger urban teams in comfortable and modern stadia, retain our young players and sell on for decent fees to Britain and further afield when they are ready, regular qualification for Europa League group stages and occasional qualification for CL group stages.

All of the above is attainable quite quickly but requires attitude change across the board (public, clubs, FAI and Government).

Im not gonna hold my breath but until something changes we should only expect to be the nearly men of international football.

**OwlsFan** · 16/12/2009, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

its all relative OwlsFan but for me, it would be regualr crowds of between 6000-8000 for the larger urban teams in comfortable and modern stadia, retain our young players and sell on for decent fees to Britain and further afield when they are ready, regular qualification for Europa League group stages and occasional qualification for CL group stages.

All of the above is attainable quite quickly but requires attitude change across the board (public, clubs, FAI and Government).

Im not gonna hold my breath but until something changes we should only expect to be the nearly men of international football.

That is 1st Division standard in the UK. Will never happen I am afraid. I went to LoI games in the pre-Sky wall to wall Premiership, PCs, laptops, mobiles etc etc era and the numbers attending LoI games were nothing like that. Some big games (FAI Cup Finals) attracted 30K plus but by and large the crowds seldom reached the numbers you speak of. A big game was anything over €1000.00 in gate receipts. There isn't a huge culture of following LoI games in Ireland and most things like that are passed down the generations. It will be extremely difficult to get the current generation of youngsters, even ignoring the counter-attractions of the national sport (GAA) and rugby, to go out on a cold Friday evening and to take up following a LoI team when they have live UK football on ad nauseum of the TV or their PC/laptop to play with.

I know they say "thread carefully when you step on my dreams" but I just don't see it happening I am afraid.

**SkStu** · 16/12/2009, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

That is 1st Division standard in the UK. Will never happen I am afraid. I went to LoI games in the pre-Sky wall to wall Premiership, PCs, laptops, mobiles etc etc era and the numbers attending LoI games were nothing like that. Some big games (FAI Cup Finals) attracted 30K plus but by and large the crowds seldom reached the numbers you speak of. A big game was anything over �1000.00 in gate receipts. There isn't a huge culture of following LoI games in Ireland and most things like that are passed down the generations. It will be extremely difficult to get the current generation of youngsters, even ignoring the counter-attractions of the national sport (GAA) and rugby, to go out on a cold Friday evening and to take up following a LoI team when they have live UK football on ad nauseum of the TV or their PC/laptop to play with.

I know they say "thread carefully when you step on my dreams" but I just don't see it happening I am afraid.

you say that it will never happen and fine, it may not, but, and this is what my original point was, unless something similar does happen we can only ever expect to be a third seed, rarely qualifying team. If anything it will get worse as the Premiership is getting even more foreigners in and also qualification for international tournaments has gotten a lot harder.

**Colbert Report** · 16/12/2009, 8:44 PM

This has probably been mentioned in the thread already but you are all aware that the spelling is "Trapattoni" and not "Trappatoni" as written in the thread title.

**Scram** · 20/12/2009, 2:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
PS. Albania 6 Cyrpus 1

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

you know, we did beat Cyprus. twice.

I know the ridculous settings on this forum don't allow for more than one wrapped quote but you might address this to Owlsfan rather than take it completely out of context!!

Or have you read Owlfan's post I was referring to where he said "we did well to get 6 points from Cyprus considering their clubs did well in Europe"??

**Emmet7** · 21/12/2009, 11:48 AM

So far Trap has done well and has been unlucky not to qualify us for the World Cup.

Take out the dodgy Henry goal and on balance we deserved to be going to the WC more than the French, if only we converted some chances.

However, I think if we fail to qualify for Euro 2012 people might view Trap's reign as ultimately a failure.

You can forgive a manager their first campaign and not qualifying. There are issues like settling in, learning the language, learning about the players. But by the second campaign, there really should be no excuses. I think you can judge how good a manager is more so by the second campaign than the first.

Trap showed too much loyalty to certain players during the campaign, McGeady, Kilbane and McShane as examples, that he really shouldn't have and that didn't help our cause.

Our inability to put teams away during the WC qualifiers probably cost us qualification. It's something that needs fixing for the Euros. We need to score at least 2 goals in every game to be sure of a win and we need players to stop making stupid defensive errors.

**irishultra** · 21/12/2009, 2:52 PM

Well it's reality. Ireland doesn't produce enough good players and the Irish team will go into decline in the coming years I'm sure of it. The football infrastructure is just not there in this country. It really is striking the comparison between football here and in Belgium at all levels. I really don't know how Ireland even manage to stay at the level they are at now.

All teams will have golden generations and it will come a time again when English clubs choose foreign Irish players as their transfer targets but by and large Ireland imo will go into decline in the next decade.

But on Trap what is he upto lately?

**tetsujin1979** · 21/12/2009, 3:28 PM

He was at Portsmouth VS Burnley recently, running the rule over Marc Wilson, and possibly O'Hara

**paul_oshea** · 21/12/2009, 3:33 PM

[QUOTE=irishultra;1296015]
All teams will have golden generations and it will come a time again when English clubs choose foreign Irish players as their transfer targets but by and large Ireland imo will go into decline in the next decade.
QUOTE]

Is that why you have been using the word "we" in reference to Belguim a lot more on a lot more threads recently....

**irishultra** · 21/12/2009, 4:32 PM

hahah no no we are **** so no lol. on here though i normally talk about belgium as just another team, but i've been using them as a point, as well as recent nostalgia for the place of my birth in the last week has meant i have brought it up more.

**SkStu** · 21/12/2009, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by irishultra

hahah no no we are **** so no lol. on here though i normally talk about belgium as just another team, but i've been using them as a point, as well as recent nostalgia for the place of my birth in the last week has meant i have brought it up more.

aye, its that time of year alright...

**paul_oshea** · 21/12/2009, 4:43 PM

ha am i missing something?

because family get together etc etc? In the last week? surely it would be this week though...

**Emmet7** · 21/12/2009, 5:03 PM

Belgium is hardly a fair comparision.

They have a greater population, a greater pick and also a sustainable domestic professional league with teams qualifying for the Champions League.

Having said that they haven't been world beaters at international level lately.

They may have better structures available to them but that's no good if the international manager isn't making the best of what's available.

The Irish international manager has done well with limited resources available to him. That's the mark of a good manager.