Giovanni Trappatoni - Well Done

[jmurphyc]

We should have won the group.

When was the last time we won a World Cup group? We haven't managed it from 1930 onwards, so it's not quite as simple as you make it out to be.

[geysir]

We had class, we coulda been a contender, we coulda been somebody.

[colster]

Saying we should have won the group rather than could have won the group is a big statement. For a start, much was made of our luck but Italy got luck in spades throughout this campaign.

I'd tend towards arguing that his first job was to make us cohesive again, achieve confidence by being hard to beat and then build on that platform to ultimately produce the type of performance we did in Paris.

I'm not sure we'd have been capable of producing that performance a year ago.

It's where we go from here that will be the next test.

Absolutely agree. The team is in a much better place than when he took over. You can't take a performance at the end of a campaign and read back and say we should of won a group because of that performance. It takes time (especially for an international manager) to rebuild the confidence of a team that had taken a battering. Their confidence must have been at a low ebb.

[Crosby87]

It takes time (especially for an international manager) to rebuild the confidence of a team that had taken a battering. Their confidence must have been at a low ebb.

So how much time is it going to take man? More or less than Slovenia?
Does our manager have enough time left for himself or will the excuse cycle start all over again when they are looking for someone else in 3 years?

[colster]

So how much time is it going to take man? More or less than Slovenia?
Does our manager have enough time left for himself or will the excuse cycle start all over again when they are looking for someone else in 3 years?

What have Slovenia got to do with it? They qualified through the playoffs against Russia. An easier draw than France IMO.
Anyway back to the point I think he's rebuilt the confidence of the side. If they take and build on the performance in Paris then I'm looking forward to and expecting us to do well in the Euro qualifiers. It obviously depends on the group we get but I'm optimistic that we can go and qualify. If we don't then we may be looking for a new manager.

[Reality Bites]

So how much time is it going to take man? More or less than Slovenia?
Does our manager have enough time left for himself or will the excuse cycle start all over again when they are looking for someone else in 3 years?

can you please elaborate on excuse cycle pertaining only to Trappatoni's tenure.

Also did Slovenia have a similar starting point to us, i.e manager taking over from a previous shambolic set-up..If you are using comparisons you need to be clear.

[Emmet7]

We have a terrible record in play-offs. Winning just one we participated in, against Iran, who were no great team.

We have lost 4 out of the last 5 play-offs we have been in. For whatever reason, we just aren't good at the play-offs. It's possibly because we get decisions against us in play-off games from refs along with other reasons.

That's why we must win the group in the Euro qualifying. Anything less and we will be into the lottery of play-off games and we don't want that.

I think Trap knows too that we must win the group. And that means beating the small teams home and away, beating the mid ranking teams home and away and beating the top seeds either at home or away and drawing the other game.

Winning the group is the only option, play-offs just don't suit us.

As for Trap, with all due respect to the previous managers Giles, Hand, Charlton, McCarthy, Kerr and Stan, they simply are not in Trap's league. He is the first manager we have with a consistant record of success at the top level, including success managing the Irish team. Yes we didn't qualify, but I think Trap got the maximum out of the players, brought in some new players and established a system that could serve Ireland for years to come.

[Crosby87]

can you please elaborate on excuse cycle pertaining only to Trappatoni's tenure.

Also did Slovenia have a similar starting point to us, i.e manager taking over from a previous shambolic set-up..If you are using comparisons you need to be clear.

I just think sometimes people on here think everything has to be perfect in order to qualify. The manager has to be here for 20 years, blah blah.
And therefore if anything is amiss it is a viable excuse i.e well, we WOULD have qualified but we had injuries, manager wasnt here long enough, its george bush's fault,etc....
BUT little Slovenia went into Russia and Q'd so it is hard for me to except any excuses. We are just not good enough right now.
That poster is saying we are headed in the right direction. Unfortunately players have such short careers in terms of world cups that it is hard to keep momentum that way.

[Irish_Praha]

I just think sometimes people on here think everything has to be perfect in order to qualify. The manager has to be here for 20 years, blah blah.
And therefore if anything is amiss it is a viable excuse i.e well, we WOULD have qualified but we had injuries, manager wasnt here long enough, its george bush's fault,etc....
BUT little Slovenia went into Russia and Q'd so it is hard for me to except any excuses. We are just not good enough right now.
That poster is saying we are headed in the right direction. Unfortunately players have such short careers in terms of world cups that it is hard to keep momentum that way.

Crosby87 I get what you mean but when a team fails to qualify it's only natural to anaylse the situation and find out what went wrong in oder to improve on this the next time around. Especially when we were so close and that little extra could help us get over the line the next time.
It would also be hard to argue against the fact that we didn't qualify simply because we were not good enough.

As for people thinking everything has to be perfect before we can qualify; unfortunately for a small country with a limited squad this is almost the case. You have to play two supposedly better teams in a group of 5 or 6 and get more points than them over 8-10 games. A hell of a lot of things have to go right to overcome those odds. The players, manager and injuries all play a very important role and I think Trap did a very good job. It was a shame S. Reid was injured for most of the qualifiers but we were also very lucky that from what I consider our other 5 core players (Duff, Given, O'Shea, Keane,Dunne) only Duff missed a few games. It might have been a different story if two or three of these were injured long-term because their replacements are not a patch on them.

[Buller]

Thank you trap for giving us hope once more!!

[Scram]

Anyone outside of Irish football support and a supporter of the game in general would find the above statement to be simply ludicrous.

On paper at the start of the campaign second place in this group seem a stretch for the players at our disposal. I think we were dogged at times and difficult to watch particularly away to Cyprus, but the ends justify the means and we got a result which firmly set us on the way to second place finish..What Trap achieved with Whelan and Andrews was remarkable, who would have thought these guys would have preformed with such strength of character and determination in Paris let alone knew much about either player at the start of campaigh. The manager believed in these players and they in turn returned that believe with a midfield display that hasn't been seen in years.
One of the most important things I alluded to above is the Team Spirit. At last we have a collection of players with character, they are a tight bunch and seem to be enjoying playing under the new management, hence no retirements or sulky displays. The same cannot be said for the Kerr and Staunton eras with widespread unrest and a good many retirements some natural others disillusioned.

Andy Reid has responded superbly to his banishment from the Irish Squad, he has lost weigh and is playing the best football of his career. Why? because for the first time he has been punished for neglecting a God given talent which he has failed to capitalise on through laziness. Reids sudden self-examination would not have been possible without Traps harsh treatment of him in the first place and now I believe the time is set for Reid to be rewarded with a call-up which will happen.

One thing I do agree with Roy Keane on and very much evident in here:

The lack of balls and losing Irish mentality

With Damien Duff, Robbie Keane and Andy Reid in our team (and indeed, Kevin Doyle, Richard Dunne and Shay Given), we should, as I said, have won this group.

And to suggest that “Andy Reid” should only “NOW” be ready to be offered a place in the team is totally laughable when Martin Rowlands and/or Liam Miller were in the squad, neither of whom could lace the boots of a 17 stone Andy Reid!

Restrictive, unimaginative, defeatist football only changing in Paris in the play-offs.

That is obviously good enough for the rest of you, the same crowd who think reaching the quarter finals of any tournament to be a huge success, no matter how many quality players we have.

“Ah well, sure didn’t we do better than under Stan” ……COMICAL!!

[Stuttgart88]

Interesting strategy.

Present argument.

Ignore credible response to argument.

Present same argument again, this time using bold font (the written equivalent of just saying it louder).

[Jicked]

With Damien Duff, Robbie Keane and Andy Reid in our team (and indeed, Kevin Doyle, Richard Dunne and Shay Given), we should, as I said, have won this group.

Italy had Pirlo, Buffon, Cannavaro... Bulgaria had Berbatov, M Petrov, S Petrov...how many teams 'should' have finished in the one qualifying spot?

[OwlsFan]

Restrictive, unimaginative, defeatist football only changing in Paris in the play-offs.

Remind me how many games we were defeated in during the campaign?

Damien Duff, Robbie Keane and Andy Reid in our team (and indeed, Kevin Doyle, Richard Dunne and Shay Given we should have won the group

Damien Duff dropping down the way and now playing at Fulham, Robbie Keane let go by Liverpool and not playing well for Spurs, Andy Reid started off on the bench for mighty Sunderland, Kevin Doyle playing for relegation candidates Wolves, Richard Dunne let go by Manchester City, Shay Given can't disagree there. Not sure they rank ahead of World Champions, Italy.

Sometimes we think our players are much better than they are. They for the most part play for mediocre teams. We were seeded three and came second. That's not bad and we were within a hand's breath of a penalty shoot out against one of the powers of Europe who have players playing in most of the top teams.

p.s. We did very well to garner 6 points from Cyprus when you see how well their club teams are doing in Europe.

[bennocelt]

Remind me how many games we were defeated in during the campaign?

To be fair Owlsfan, we didnt win a whole lot either

[Scram]

Remind me how many games we were defeated in during the campaign?



Damien Duff dropping down the way and now playing at Fulham, Robbie Keane let go by Liverpool and not playing well for Spurs, Andy Reid started off on the bench for mighty Sunderland, Kevin Doyle playing for relegation candidates Wolves, Richard Dunne let go by Manchester City, Shay Given can't disagree there. Not sure they rank ahead of World Champions, Italy.

Sometimes we think our players are much better than they are. They for the most part play for mediocre teams. We were seeded three and came second. That's not bad and we were within a hand's breath of a penalty shoot out against one of the powers of Europe who have players playing in most of the top teams.

p.s. We did very well to garner 6 points from Cyprus when you see how well their club teams are doing in Europe.

You rate our players based on some flawed EPL managers’ views in order to support your contention that we don’t have high quality players!! I think you are another one suffering from the debilitating Irish inferiority complex. Take Richard Dunne for example, you say he shouldn’t be rated because Mark Hughes got rid of him…how ridiculous when it is 100% clear to anyone who knows anything about football that this was one of Hughes’ biggest mistakes.

The performance against France showed what our team are capable of if let play and what we could have done had we been let play and Andy Reid being selected. (oops, I forgot his last performance v Fulham wasn’t his usual high standard, so forget about him too….RIDICULOUS)

PS. Albania 6 Cyrpus 1

[Emmet7]

People say these days, how many of the current Irish team would get in the English squad, and most people would name a couple of names.

Think back to the players Jack Charlton had available to him and it was a completely different story. He had an embarrassment of riches at his disposal, a golden generation of players to pick from and the majority of them would have made the English squad at the time if they were English, an English team that reached the WC Semi Finals.

He had Bonner, Irwin, Stauntan, Moran, McCarthy, Lawrenson, McGrath, Babb, Brady, Whelan, Keane, Houghtan, Sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn, Cascarino, Stapleton, Townsend, and many more players available to him. Most of these players would walk onto any International team of the time.

We have some good players now, but not near enough the number Charlton had.

[tetsujin1979]

PS. Albania 6 Cyrpus 1

you know, we did beat Cyprus. twice.

[Reality Bites]

You rate our players based on some flawed EPL managers’ views in order to support your contention that we don’t have high quality players!! I think you are another one suffering from the debilitating Irish inferiority complex. Take Richard Dunne for example, you say he shouldn’t be rated because Mark Hughes got rid of him…how ridiculous when it is 100% clear to anyone who knows anything about football that this was one of Hughes’ biggest mistakes.

The performance against France showed what our team are capable of if let play and what we could have done had we been let play and Andy Reid being selected. (oops, I forgot his last performance v Fulham wasn’t his usual high standard, so forget about him too….RIDICULOUS)

PS. Albania 6 Cyrpus 1

Scram i give in you were right all along. Brian Kerr should be managing us with Andy Reid in central midfield and come July 11th ??? we should be in World Cup Final against Brazil / Spain playing fluent one touch football alot like Barcelona,because yes we do have the players to do so,they are technically gifted and never get injured,they are in fact playing below themselves in EPL and only those who follow the game with the same level of interest as yourself can spot this. So sack Trapand replace him with Brian Kerr re-instate Andy Reid in centre mid and we just have to turn up for the Euros, the rest is a formality....I for one cannot wait...

[magnumpi]

Think back to the players Jack Charlton had available to him and it was a completely different story. He had an embarrassment of riches at his disposal, a golden generation of players to pick from and the majority of them would have made the English squad at the time if they were English, an English team that reached the WC Semi Finals.

He had Bonner, Irwin, Stauntan, Moran, McCarthy, Lawrenson, McGrath, Babb, Brady, Whelan, Keane, Houghtan, Sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn, Cascarino, Stapleton, Townsend, and many more players available to him. Most of these players would walk onto any International team of the time.

We have some good players now, but not near enough the number Charlton had.

only the three highlighted would have "walked" into *any* (used lightly) international team. the players charlton had were better than the current crop, by a long way, but your outlandish statements once again undermine your overall argument.