No comment from me, just thought this should get a thread of it's own.
I do have a question though: when was the last full general strike in Ireland?
adam
I see many of the strikers today took the chance to show their patriotism today and solidarity with their bretherin in the private retail sector by shuttling up the north to do their christmas shopping, James Larkin must be spinning in his grave. linky
Last edited by dahamsta; 24/11/2009 at 9:26 PM.
I'm not sure what I think about the strikes, but I know what I think about those scumbags.
If you're on strike, you should either be manning the picket line, or fired.
Well done to the picketers manning the UCD gate this morning. I spoke to one girl, who doesn't attend or work at UCD, coming in to meet a friend who was told to text her friend and meet her somewhere else and an elderly gentleman with a hip problem who was told to park his car elsewhere and walk in. Other people I know were asked to explain themselves when entering the college to work today. If they expect their right to take industrial action to be respected then they should respect others' right to work or even just move freely.Originally Posted by centre mid
What makes you think it wasnt private sector people forced to take a day off work to mind kids taking advantage of a day off?
A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends
Presume they were asked where they worked as they went into shops?
Private sector workers absolutely should strike, to achieve parity with their high rolling public servants. Why is there a race to the bottom?
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Private sector workers have to go out and earn money, public sector workers think having money is earned.
I know a lot of public sector workers and don't know a single one with the attitude you describe.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
Not sure I understand that statement.Private sector workers have to go out and earn money, public sector workers think having money is earned.
I was on the road (working) yesterday and heard Pat Kenny, Joe Duffy and Matt Cooper. The best contributor all day was a teacher from Dublin with 20odd years behind him & who has had private sector experience in France. He made a good argument for property tax or water charges. He didn't shirk the question of more pain being needed to be taken by his peers but resented taking it all. Even Eddie hobbs started to agree with him on some aspects.
Personally I think the strike is ethically wrong, we have thousands in the west of ireland whose land/houses/ businesses are under water and I think it should have been called off in solidarity with our fellow man. As for those may have left pickets and gone shopping up North, they would have gone anyway perhaps next Saturday or the following one or the 8th of dec. The point is that vat was always going to go to HM Customs. It physically wouldn't be possible for employees to all man a gate at the same time. hence the rosta arrangement.
Quote from the article;
Many public-sector workers said they were taking advantage of the national strike to stock up on groceries and goods but were reluctant to be identified.
Just on the thread title, is it fair to call this a general strike? Is it fair to those in the private sector to have it called a general strike?
I hate the thought of another strike day, I hate the fact that we were out yesterday, but really there was little choice. There seems to have been zero progress in negotiations, all we are hearing is pay cut, pay cut, pay cut, amounts ranging from anything up to 15% which would cripple many single income families, or families where both are public servants, lets not forget that over 7% of income has already been hit with the pension levy.
As public servants we are frightened of being victimised if we don't take a stand. Cutting public pay will inevitably lead to a strengthening of the race to the bottom in private sector pay and the vicious circle will continue. Few public servants would argue that we shouldn't make a further contribution but it must be done fairly, the lower paid workers can't be expected to take the same hit as the privileged few in very highly paid positions. Attacking pension benefits across the board without considering the fact that those employed after 1995 already have significantly poorer pensions and many who joined at an older age and have short service won't really benefit from the pensions at all.
There is a vacuum being created in higher-level posts due to early retirement and there are empty posts all over the place, public services are already being hit and will only be hit further if the vicious cuts are allowed to continue. The good conditions enjoyed by public servants should not be envied, but aspired to by those in the private sector, I left a much better paid private sector job to join the Civil Service, solely because it offered job security, study opportunities and pension benefits that my private sector employer refused to give, if Government employees are not given good benefits what hope is there for the private sector?
The public sector must reform and become more efficient, but it is a slow process, there are archaic structures that must be torn down and there is fluidity required, but if conditions and pay are cut, how will qualified, talented people be found to fill these positions? We have witnessed in the past the difficulties in filling public service positions, which leads to poorly qualified and almost unemployable people being hired, simply because nobody else would take the jobs, most of these are being weeded out thanks to the improved pay and the introduction of a competitive aptitude testing and interview process. Front line positions, which could almost be seen as vocations, such as nurses, Gardai, teachers and firemen, will always find willing and capable people, but the vitally important administrative positions are the ones that become hard to fill, and if the administration is rubbish the front line services will suffer.
A fine balance needs to be found that doesn't lead to the public service being destroyed and still allows the Government to make savings. Once the nation begins to recover private sector workers will be rewarded far more quickly than those in the public sector, and a further drain of talented people away from public service will occur unless the currently required savings are found in a reasonable way.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
There's a fair few people I'd say who are working in places which were closed for the strike but who, because they weren't unionised themselves, turned up for work only to find the place closed. I'm sure there's some strikers who've left the picket, but I'd say there's a fair few of the other group too. We can't really tell how many are from either group.
The pickets were done on a rota basis, generally two hour stints. I was on from 10am-12pm and then had the rest of the day to myself. If people didn't do picket duty and were union members they were warned beforehand that they would face expulsion from the union.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
Decent post up until this, the "vocations" will not easily find people, who is going to put themselves through university for nursing or teaching to be paid what they could earn by doing a non skilled or job?
"Vitally important admin posititons", jesus wept, its the admin positions that are giving us all a bad name. Most ppl dont begrudge the "vocations" what they get paid and want to see a cull on the "Vitally important admin posititons".
A man can have no greater love than give 90 minutes to his friends
You probably have a point but there's a tradition attached to those jobs that tends to attract people, maybe easily was the wrong word.
There's no doubt that the admin positions are badly run and staff are poorly utilised at the moment. It's definitely an area that needs substantial reform, but it is vitally important that the work is being carried out by qualified, intelligent and creative individuals. A large part of the problem is that these positions are not viewed as being important and the people sitting in many of them require retraining (or training of any kind). Our public service is not hugely overstaffed, it's mainly a case that the current staff are poorly utilised and in some cases underqualifed and in rare cases completely useless and getting away with murder.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
The public sector is now grossly overpaid by the same benchmarking standards which saw negotiations where all we heard was more, more, more. The fact that pay cuts will prove difficult for people is unfortunate, but you know, tough ****. My dad saw his wages nearly halved by the time he and all of his colleagues were laid off. There's a €22,000,000,000 deficit to faff ineffectually over, and the public sector doesn't want to know.
As for the idea that pay cuts will cripple the civil service's ability to attract good staff, their pay is now, as I said, far above competitive. It can take the hit.
All the public sector unions have acknowledged the need for savings and for cuts. It's how they are to be made that's the issue.
The pay at the moment is not far above competitve, the same benchmarking standards are not being applied, and that's irrelevant to attracting good staff at the moment because there's been a recruitment embargo for over a year. One of the risks of private sector work is that pay and conditions can fluctuate rapidly, private sector pay will increase in an econmic recovery, whilst the public sector lags behind.
By the time the recruitment embargo is lifted nobody will want to know about public service jobs, and people will continue to moan about the poor standard of public servants running the country. There has to be a balance.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
They have to be - it's illegal to Mass Picket. But, hey why would people let the facts get in the way of rants about how strikers should've been on the pickets all day, regardless about the shopping in the North crap.
Just some general points...
- The only like for like comparison was benchmarking. It is instructive that those calling for reverse benchmarking in the media are talking about benchmarking with other eu countries and not the private sector in this one. Does that have anything to do with the latest figures showing a rise in earnings in the private sector?
- ICTU/ Public Service Unions haven't said a blanket "no" to pay cuts, just as that being the only measure. As part of an overall plan, which has some element of fairness with those most able paying the most I think staff would accept it. I know people have issues with ICTU's plan, but it is damning of the Government and others that this remains the only overall plan that anyone's put of the table!
- It's a pity that some of those that now think the public sector is great didn't apply when they had a chance. In the mid-noughties a colleague of mine spent a whole day "interviewing" and not one of the people called showed. This was a regular occurance in those days. Surely if salaries were so high, they should've been turning people away?
- Admin staff actually free up frontline staff to do frontline duties. Do people prefer cops, nurses, doctors behind a desk or dealing with the public?
Last edited by Macy; 25/11/2009 at 2:11 PM.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Whatever about "ethically" and "solidarity", I was very disappointed that the strike wasn't called off in support of what was and is, in effect, a national emergency. There was nothing stopping the unions rescheduling.
Fair point, I've renamed it.
Can you give more detail on this Macy? Under what law? What are the details? Personally I think if poeple are on strike they should be picketing or fired and if the law says different I'd like to see it justified. I can't think why a picket of all striking staff can't be configured in a way that isn't disruptive.
adam
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