Public Sector Cost-Cutting

**dahamsta** · 01/12/2009, 6:57 PM

One can only imagine the amount of "back channel" discussions that go on between these guys. Like a bad episode of Spooks, filmed on Craggy Island. By bishops.

We should rent our politicians and union leaders out around the world, as backscratchers. Buy one get one free, we have a surplus.

adam

**hoops1** · 01/12/2009, 10:22 PM

12 days unpaid leave for Public sector workers across the board. Cant see that been a runner to the lower paid workers.

**Macy** · 02/12/2009, 7:52 AM

Originally Posted by hoops1

12 days unpaid leave for Public sector workers across the board. Cant see that been a runner to the lower paid workers.

Surely they'll be jumping at it, because all the coverage is about how great a deal it is for the public sector worker!

**Fr Damo** · 02/12/2009, 9:22 AM

Cannot see how the Government will physically mange it. How can we get teachers to take unpaid leave when we are short on them and similarily the Guards are struggling with rising crime etc. It's to subjective imo.

Secondly, there was a general acceptance that the public sectors workers on 25 - 35 k couldn't afford to take a hit and personally i would have left them alone this time around, these 12 days are effectively 5% pay cut accross the board and therefore unjust. Some departments are obviously over staffed and have excess capacity, more as we know are already struggling. I know a 2 public sector workers who were considering crossing the picket this thursday as the day without pay was 5% deduction they could not afford in the run up to xmas.

**passinginterest** · 02/12/2009, 9:29 AM

It's a tricky one without a doubt. I'd come into that 25-35k bracket and so would most of my work mates and we were generally more in favour of the unpaid leave than a cut, the way we're looking at it is at least this is supposed to be a temporary measure and it has a sort of compensation, whereas a cut would never be reversed.

It will make things awkward in terms of work building up and I'd imagine in areas like social welfare and redundancy as well as the obvious front line services it will be very difficult to implement. It does further illustrate the fact that there is an awful lot of inefficiency in the public service, when we can claim the 10-12 days of additional unpaid leave won't affect services, but it does offer the opportunity to make short term saving and long term reform in a more manageable manner.

There's a recruitment moratorium in place until 2014 already so there'll be a dramatic reduction in numbers purely by natural wastage in the next 4 years.

**seand** · 02/12/2009, 9:52 AM

Anyone know how this would work for teachers? Are the kids gonna get a fortnight's less education? Are the government going to try and not pay them for 12 days during the summer?!

**Fr Damo** · 02/12/2009, 10:15 AM

I heard some half effort f explanation on Morning ireland... basicaly they say it could be credited to them such that perhaps in 2011 they can take 20-24 days off (i assume like a months sabitical) .
The summer holiday's might be a good one!
In short I don't know! fine Gael in opposition as they can't see how it would work and lets be honest, they'll have to deal with it shortly.

**Macy** · 02/12/2009, 11:16 AM

I've no more details at this stage than what's been in the press. In frontline areas, they are talking of it being spread over 3 or 4 years. Teaching is the only place I see a real issue as they have fixed holidays (which is a bone of contention in itself).

It's a short term measure whilst efficiency/ flexibility changes come into place, and the embargo will remain in place. It's a 5% cut in spending, and I would think that it can be managed without Core services being effected. Short time working and temp layoff's are used throughout the private sector (only with those workers getting social welfare). I think some people/ commentators are obsessed with bitterness at this stage, and if public servants aren't in sackclothes they won't be happy.

As to whether it will be accepted, the devil will be in the detail judging by reaction here. A lot of public sector organisations no longer allow various family friendly (and cost reducing) policies on foot of the embargo. If this gives staff back some flexibility it will probably pass on the basis of it being a temp measure.

I hear on the 12 O'Clock News that Cowen is welching already - either because the headlines or because the garlic muncher has spat the clove. Again, whatever about the merits or otherwise, another example of decisive leadership

**Fr Damo** · 02/12/2009, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

It's a short term measure whilst efficiency/ flexibility changes come into place, and the embargo will remain in place. It's a 5% cut in spending, and I would think that it can be managed without Core services being effected. Short time working and temp layoff's are used throughout the private sector (only with those workers getting social welfare). I think some people/ commentators are obsessed with bitterness at this stage, and if public servants aren't in sackclothes they won't be happy.

It is used in the private sector yes, but not in company's who are at 100% capacity. Much of the public sector is bursting at the seems if you believe what some of the Unions say. The more I think about it the more I see the tail wagging the dog. It will equate to 3m days a year, I don't think the public sector is flexible enough to manage the work load!

**Macy** · 02/12/2009, 2:39 PM

It's managing the non-replacement of staff, and non-renewal of temps. In our place there's been a big reorganisation of people with the change in workload that's happened - all done with agreement/ cooperation of the union (It doesn't make the media, as it doesn't suit the agenda).

This is supposed to be the short term cost saving, in lieu of the longer term flexibility etc. And the biggest obstacle to that is managers protecting their own patch/power, and Government letting them, rather than unions/ staff.

Cowen has already welched, and much more importantly Joe Duffy was spinning against it, so it's dead in the water imo anyway (we're governed more by liveline callers than the Cabinet). More strikes next week when Cowen officially reneges on last nights agreement?

**Fr Damo** · 02/12/2009, 3:04 PM

Didn't here Joe but i bet every self employed builder and their houswife this side of Clontarf was on. I think you are right about Cowan turning, Lenihan was at it on the news at one from Brussels I think.

This will make the Public sector more voiceiferous (sic) imo and probably more militant fueled of course by the lads with beards. Maybe the 8th of December would be a good day for a strike, if a quarter weren't already off that day! Actually the private sector will go out with them and we will soon see who is running (not ruining) this country!

100 odd jobs gone in PTSB, reducing branches

**Macy** · 03/12/2009, 7:36 AM

My view would be a two day strike, Tuesday and Wednesday next week.

At this stage, they could say they were cutting pay by 20% and there'd be outrage that it wasn't enough.

btw1 Interesting that even FG in Bruton see the need for an overall economic plan to be able to sell pay cuts.

btw2 IBEC on Morning Ireland yesterday basically admitted that they wanted to use cuts in public sector pay to drive down pay across the economy. Those liveline callers should be careful what they wish for.

**Fr Damo** · 03/12/2009, 7:55 AM

Ref the 2nd BTW... I can't believe it. Not becuase i don't believe it is necessary, it is, but because the clown actuall said it. Mr Fielding was it?

Speaking for my self and my missus, we are happy to work of a lower level of income provided that the cost of every thing else (I accept mortgage repayments will increase) comes back to more European (or British isles) norms. I work for a English compnay based in Ireland, their production staff are on about 7.50 per hour. They can get a sandwich for .99p on their way to work, they can get a pint for 2.20, they can buy a mid range three year old car for less than 5k. They can do a shop in ASADA/MORRISION/MATLAN for about 35% what we pay.
In 2008 My 2006 Irish opel vectra cost more than my boss'es English 06 S type Jag. We need to reduce costs here, public and private , in tandom or we will see further erosion of FDI currently here and ruin the prospect of ever winning any back. WE SIMPLY HAVE TO. Everybody.

**Macy** · 03/12/2009, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Fr Damo

Ref the 2nd BTW... I can't believe it. Not becuase i don't believe it is necessary, it is, but because the clown actuall said it. Mr Fielding was it?

No, not even the ISME nutjob, it was Danny McCoy from IBEC.

Originally Posted by Fr Damo

Speaking for my self and my missus

I think you're speaking for everyone, both Public and Private sector. But there's no plan to focus on other costs and rampant profiteering.

**bennocelt** · 03/12/2009, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by Fr Damo

Speaking for my self and my missus, we are happy to work of a lower level of income provided that the cost of every thing else (I accept mortgage repayments will increase) comes back to more European (or British isles) norms..

where is that - sorry

Yeah agree most people are really happy to take a little hurt (pay levy, etc), but its also seems that its not felt across the board at all.
Wonder if the politicians will be taking any reduction in their salaries in the near future

**John83** · 03/12/2009, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Yeah agree most people are really happy to take a little hurt (pay levy, etc), but its also seems that its not felt across the board at all.
Wonder if the politicians will be taking any reduction in their salaries in the near future

Didn't they take a 10% pay cut a few months ago?

**Macy** · 03/12/2009, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by John83

Didn't they take a 10% pay cut a few months ago?

Did that even bring them down into a 5 figure salary? Oh, the pain that must have inflicted on them... If they'd taken 25-30% that would be comparable.

**Fr Damo** · 03/12/2009, 1:29 PM

[

QUOTE=

Yeah agree most people are really happy to take a little hurt (pay levy, etc), but its also seems that its not felt across the board at all.
Wonder if the politicians will be taking any reduction in their salaries in the near future

[/QUOTE]

As John says they took 10% during the year I think, I assume they got hit with the pension levy also but if politicans say they are asking for public sector pay to be cut by 7.5% for those on more than say 50k, I guess they will be taking the same level of cut?

**Dodge** · 03/12/2009, 11:58 PM

Funny to see a couple of bodies who had previously claimed for PS numbers to be "slashed" to start crying that unpaid leave would affect the levels of service as the PS would lose 5% of working hours.

**Macy** · 04/12/2009, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Funny to see a couple of bodies who had previously claimed for PS numbers to be "slashed" to start crying that unpaid leave would affect the levels of service as the PS would lose 5% of working hours.

Nothing will ever be enough in a climate that outright lies become accepted as reality.