Public Sector Cost-Cutting

[Dodge]

I was astonished to find out that the majority of people didn't/don't know that striking workers do not get paid

We had already discussed the law soccerc, I was asking what justified it.

presumably its a public order thing. If a building housing 500 workers was being picketed, it would need to be policed if only for the safety of pedastrians/motorists etc

[mypost]

Ya sure of course we're laughing, it's not like public servants are married to private sector workers who've lost their jobs and taken cuts, we obviously don't have parents, brothers and sisters and friends who've suffered too. It's all a great laugh we have it so easy.

If only it was that black and white.

Most countries have to good sense not to attack the wages and conditions of public servants as their primary method of making savings.

Most countries have to try to balance the difference between income and expenditure right now. And that involves their public sectors taking hits. Most of them recognise that it is to help them recover, only here is that not happening.

It doesn't really matter that public and private sector people live beside each other, what matters is which of them have a job. Having a job gives you a reason to get up in the morning and earn a wage. It gives you status and dignity. Not having a job gives you €11k a year, and be expected to wait hours in social welfare offices and post offices in the rain to get your miserly allowance every week, after you've cleared the tedious screening process.

There are public sector workers earning collecting €300 a week from their job. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of private sector ex-employees would love €300 a week, without whinging or protesting. The amount of applications part-time jobs get is incredible, for in many cases less than the weekly JA payment. Nobody wants to do nothing. Unfortunately, many have to right now.

Yesterday's strikes serve no benefit whatsoever. Brussels has ordered us to find €4 billion in savings next year, and strike or no strike, they will be found. The only benefit to striking, is a bonus chance for public sector workers to doss in Newry for retail therapy, under the cover of "protest".

[dahamsta]

I was astonished to find out that the majority of people didn't/don't know that striking workers do not get paid

I'm often surprised by the ignorance of... oh hang on, I'm not...

[Dodge]

Most countries have to try to balance the difference between income and expenditure right now. And that involves their public sectors taking hits. Most of them recognise that it is to help them recover, only here is that not happening.

HOw will cutting public servant pay help anyone with out a job?

YOu open with the above and then go into your usual rant about the economy. HOw will cutting the public paybill help stimulate the economy?

As for your "bonus" of an unpaid day?

You'd thnk with all this spare time you apparently have (if public servants doss on their unpaid days, surely you must too?), you'd have read up a little on the world.

Seriously, get real and stop posting ill informed garbage

[Macy]

presumably its a public order thing. If a building housing 500 workers was being picketed, it would need to be policed if only for the safety of pedastrians/motorists etc

That, and so scabs don't get intimidated.

For the benefit of people incapable of comprehension (I'm looking at you mypost), public servants (represented by their unions) are willing to take a further a hit. However, it is all about context. If it's just going to be public servants and welfare recipients that take the hit, it's not going to be accepted without a fight. If it was part of an overall plan, that shared the pain fairly amongst all sectors of society and had a clear goal to be achieved in terms of the economy and society I believe public servants would accept a further cut. Again I repeat, the only overall vision that anyone has put on the table remains the ICTU plan - there's been no Government plan to put cuts in context.

Cutting pay of people who have better (not the absolute as is made out) job security, and those on social welfare is just going to feed deflation. If people think prices are falling they don't spend. This leads to further reductions in prices and so the deflationary spiral takes hold. Do people, where ever they work, actually think this is a good thing? The only thing it guarantees is further job losses. Social Welfare recipients tend to spend what they get - it goes straight back into the economy. Most public servants have been cutting back on spending in anticipation of cuts - whether you think it's the right course or not, the protracted nature of the implementation of further cuts has been an absolute disaster for the economy.

It is sad to see that the divide and conquer tactics is still working. The only people laughing are the rich, not public servants, who get to sit pretty untouched. Most people in the Private Sector still have jobs, the stats appear to contradict the anecdotes of pay cuts - cuts in public sector pay levels will inevitably be used to drive down private sector wage levels. The only winners are the wealthy and the elites. The ordinary joe soap is no better off, except they get to be a bit less bitter that they never took public sector jobs when they could of

[centre mid]

I'm not sure that this government has the ability too be so machiavellian that there is a co-ordinated policy to devide the pucblic & private sectors, I think the media are doing that.

What would worry me is that once the paycuts are anounced, then the private sector will use that to justify futher paycuts in the private sector. There is certainly anecdotal evidence that some employers have used the economy as a tool to puch wages down. Its beginning to look like a race to the bottom.

While I'd accept that it took benchmarking for the private sector to reach some sort of parity with private secotr pay, the private sector can never reach parity with the public sector in terms of security and I supposed that is one of the areas where benchmarking was a disater.

[Macy]

I'm not sure that this government has the ability too be so machiavellian that there is a co-ordinated policy to devide the pucblic & private sectors, I think the media are doing that.

Come off it, they've been one of the main drivers. Even this week Lenihan was stoking it up. But they're all part of the same cabal.

the private sector can never reach parity with the public sector in terms of security and I supposed that is one of the areas where benchmarking was a disater.

I'm not sure whether the last one did or not - on straight pay further increases were awarded, but then taken off because of non pay elements such as pensions. The problem would've been putting a value on it, especially as at the time there was full employment. However, as a public servant I in no way feel a 100% secure. It's better job security, not absolute. I'd also point out that job security has been eroded in the private sector over the last number of decades. Who benefitted from that change? Certainly wasn't the disposable worker.

[saint dog]

what is so annoying is the fact that so many public sector workers are listening to and been led up the garden path by all these trade unions , who at the end of all this really only want to protect themselves and their higher paid buddies in the public sector and not any of the low average call it what you like hard working public sector worker .

[Macy]

Actually, it's more like the other way around. It was the union heads that were talking down the members after the first pay cut this year. The aborted strike was driven by motions from branches, that are made up of ordinary representatives. Sorry to squash another myth/ cliché...

[centre mid]

Come off it, they've been one of the main drivers. Even this week Lenihan was stoking it up. But they're all part of the same cabal.

I wouldnt argue that they are riding the wave of it, just that it was a policy.

[Fr Damo]

[QUOTE]

HOw will cutting public servant pay help anyone with out a job?

YOu open with the above and then go into your usual rant about the economy. HOw will cutting the public paybill help stimulate the economy?

It won't in it's self but it's a bigger picture. The 1.3B they are looking to cut from the public sector is a lot easier to find at the moment than the 1.3B from normal PAYE workers of which something 40-50% pay no tax at all. And with unemployment still set to rise in the first three month of next year (mainly in retail, Car sales and resturants IMO) the private sector is set to shrink further.
High taxes don't incourage spending or investment, this is what we need now, so it must come from the governments expenditure side
Yes, the better well off could pay more but not through paye which is the easist and quickest way.
The strike should be called off now, right now, take the hit. How can a teacher in Gort or Ballinasloe go on strike when students are are being evacuated from their homes?

I'm off to St V de Paul to donate old clothes and bed linen.

[Fr Damo]

Actually, it's more like the other way around. It was the union heads that were talking down the members after the first pay cut this year. The aborted strike was driven by motions from branches, that are made up of ordinary representatives. Sorry to squash another myth/ cliché...

Jack O Connor is in it for himself. What's he on... 120K or something. Are these guys taking pay cuts as Union dues decrease with unemployment? He changes his tune when questioned toughly... The trophy house suggestion to Pat Kenny showed how devoid of imagination he is

Liam Doran I give credit to though as the son of a nurse, I think they are paid more than enough.

[gaiscíoch]

Either these people you know are idiots - voting for strike action so they can lose money? or they filling you up with a crock of something.

Or maybe they are so comfortable financially that they don't care about the loss of a few €uro????

[Ash]

There's a fair few people I'd say who are working in places which were closed for the strike but who, because they weren't unionised themselves, turned up for work only to find the place closed. I'm sure there's some strikers who've left the picket, but I'd say there's a fair few of the other group too. We can't really tell how many are from either group.

Some unionised and nonunionised employees in the PS applied for annual leave for
the day so as they wouldnt loose pay, but they were refused.

I've since heard that nonunionised teachers can appeal and get their days pay if
the school wasnt open. Dunno how accurate that is, just heard it a few minutes ago.

I also know of 1 PS place where nobody bothered to turn up for the picket.
Some nonunionised people didnt turn up for work assuming the picket would be there
and they either wouldnt cross it or the building wouldnt be open. The building was open
and work continued as normal for those who turned up so not sure if there will be any
repercusions for those who didnt

[Macy]

It won't in it's self but it's a bigger picture

What bigger picture? There is no overall plan being worked too. It's pick off the easy targets. Cutting pay will stop people spending, and be used to drive down wages in the rest of the economy. All of which will reduce tax take both of direct taxes and indirect taxes.

Jack O Connor is in it for himself. What's he on... 120K or something.

If union members don't like him, they can vote him out. He was only re-elected a year or so ago.

I've since heard that nonunionised teachers can appeal and get their days pay if
the school wasnt open. Dunno how accurate that is, just heard it a few minutes ago.

Being locked out is different to not passing a picket. If the school wasn't open then how could they report for duty. Can't imagine too many teachers not in a union tbh, for the general protection they offer.

[saint dog]

what about cutting things like sick leave
the HSE has a terrible record for people going sick and getting paid for it ect
obviously some people are genuine but a high % milk it
in the private sector if you were to carry on like that you'd be out the door

[Macy]

If sick leave is a genuine issue, then that could be part of the negotiated agreement. It isn't, so it won't be.

[saint dog]

If sick leave is a genuine issue, then that could be part of the negotiated agreement. It isn't, so it won't be.

how is it not an issue ,

[Macy]

how is it not an issue ,

Because there is no evidence it is being abused, and if it is there are procedures to deal with that abuse. There are no efficiency gains in making sick people turn in for work just to avoid being docked pay.

[saint dog]

Because there is no evidence it is being abused, and if it is there are procedures to deal with that abuse. There are no efficiency gains in making sick people turn in for work just to avoid being docked pay.

but there are for those who just couldn't be bothered going into work in the public sector , knowing they'll get paid anyway and more securing knowing they wont lose their job over it
and btw there is planty of evidence that sick pay is been abused across the board .