Public Sector Cost-Cutting

[dahamsta]

Oops, I commented on a CA topic.

Anyway, I should add to the previous post: ...if the unions keep control of their members. If yer out, yer out; it's not a holiday.

[Macy]

If yer out, yer out; it's not a holiday.

It's not a holiday, as you're not being paid. Unions expect you to show up for picket duty, there's normally a roster and you'll be ticked off a list when you attend.

Under what law? What are the details?

The Industrial Relations Act, you're only supposed to have enough so that relevant people know there's a dispute/picket (a bit "how long is a piece of string", but you couldn't have everyone on the picket, all day).

[pineapple stu]

Slightly off topic, but the internet is frigging amazing!

[dahamsta]

you couldn't have everyone on the picket, all day

Why not? If everyone behaves themselves, what's the problem?

[mypost]

All the public sector unions have acknowledged the need for savings and for cuts. It's how they are to be made that's the issue.

One of the risks of private sector work is that pay and conditions can fluctuate rapidly, private sector pay will increase in an econmic recovery, whilst the public sector lags behind.

That's always been the case.

Right now, the public sector is laughing at the private sector, they have their job security, and atm that's more important than whether John or Joan will lose €50 a week from the government in January. The tears are for the private sector, who have pay cuts, and job losses to deal with, with little hope of working for the foreseeable future. Then the government want to slash the piecemeal payment they get in the new year, after they've spent 12 weeks waiting to trudge up to the post office to collect it.

Most countries have the same problem at the moment, yet I don't see the French going mad over it (and they like to kick up a fuss), I don't see the Germans, Spanish, Italians, Russians, etc, etc going out to strike. To me, quite a few "on strike" saw it as a bonus day out to Newry for shopping, and they'll have another one soon.

[passinginterest]

That's always been the case.

Right now, the public sector is laughing at the private sector, they have their job security, and atm that's more important than whether John or Joan will lose €50 a week from the government in January. The tears are for the private sector, who have pay cuts, and job losses to deal with, with little hope of working for the foreseeable future. Then the government want to slash the piecemeal payment they get in the new year, after they've spent 12 weeks waiting to trudge up to the post office to collect it.

Most countries have the same problem at the moment, yet I don't see the French going mad over it (and they like to kick up a fuss), I don't see the Germans, Spanish, Italians, Russians, etc, etc going out to strike. To me, quite a few "on strike" saw it as a bonus day out to Newry for shopping, and they'll have another one soon.

Ya sure of course we're laughing, it's not like public servants are married to private sector workers who've lost their jobs and taken cuts, we obviously don't have parents, brothers and sisters and friends who've suffered too. It's all a great laugh we have it so easy.

If only it was that black and white.

Most countries have to good sense not to attack the wages and conditions of public servants as their primary method of making savings.

[passinginterest]

Why not? If everyone behaves themselves, what's the problem?

Kildare St would have been totally impassable had all the civil servants been out at the same time. There was enough disruption of the footpaths with the 20-30 people that were outside the buildings on each shift. It would have been chaos to try and have all workers on the pickets all day. I'd imagine it would have some impact if it was done though, it would certainly raise awareness of the sheer volume of people effected.

[Kingdom]

Kildare St would have been totally impassable had all the civil servants been out at the same time. There was enough disruption of the footpaths with the 20-30 people that were outside the buildings on each shift. It would have been chaos to try and have all workers on the pickets all day. I'd imagine it would have some impact if it was done though, it would certainly raise awareness of the sheer volume of people effected.

Funny I was disappointed by the turn out on Kildare St. Don't have numbers for other depts but I know 1/3 of our union did not picket.

[passinginterest]

Funny I was disappointed by the turn out on Kildare St. Don't have numbers for other depts but I know 1/3 of our union did not picket.

1/3 of the union not picketing is shocking and I'd hope they get kicked out of the union because of it. I know none of us particularly wanted to be on strike but there's no excuse really for a union member not to picket once it has been decided to go ahead. There seemed to be a good turn out from ours, but having said that approximately 1/3 of names were missing when the roster was finalised and whether many of them turned up or not I couldn't say.

[gaiscíoch]

Ya sure of course we're laughing, it's not like public servants are married to private sector workers who've lost their jobs and taken cuts, we obviously don't have parents, brothers and sisters and friends who've suffered too. It's all a great laugh we have it so easy.

If only it was that black and white.

Most countries have to good sense not to attack the wages and conditions of public servants as their primary method of making savings.

Public Servants are just incredible...

Most other countries don't pay the insane amounts of money our Public servants get????
I was watching Prime time last night.
Three people were interviewed.

One fella earns €50,000 Pa. Comes on saying he can't afford a pay cut????
(It would take me 2 years to get this.)

Another young woman a Physio comes on she gets €55,000PA.
Comes on saying he can't afford a pay cut????
(I'd have to work for Two years 3 months)

Another lad comes on he takes home 36,000 PA.
Comes on saying he can't afford a pay cut????
(Work a year and a half to earn this)
Seriously if you don't think there is something not quite right about that then 1/2 the public sector should be privatized.

You don't have to go into a boss who will act the ***** all day and watch what your doing all day and try take every penny he can from your pocket.

Bottom line is I dont mind him taking the money from me. I also don't mind the government taking money from me to pay your wages and to help out some poor sod who did absolutely nothing wrong sitting at home with no work to go to a mortgage to pay and a family to feed or the young lad just out of school who gets a stunning 100euro a week off the dole.

You can say well it's back handed and not being done right. Whatever way it's done it's required the sooner you help us (Private Sector) the sooner we can help ye. (Pay your wages by working).

(PS I know 4 Primary teachers who voted for strike action because they would get the day off...)

[Kingdom]

Public Servants are just incredible...

Yo, chief, we pay taxes too.

I'd imagine what all these people have an issue with is that the one group of people in the state who could make definite financial arrangements with lending institutions etc., without fear of pay loss etc, the public servants, are not looking at being up sheet creek without a paddle due to pay cuts for the second time in a year.

1/3 of the union not picketing is shocking and I'd hope they get kicked out of the union because of it. I know none of us particularly wanted to be on strike but there's no excuse really for a union member not to picket once it has been decided to go ahead. There seemed to be a good turn out from ours, but having said that approximately 1/3 of names were missing when the roster was finalised and whether many of them turned up or not I couldn't say.

I unintentionally misled you there.

1/3 of our branch of our union didn't picket. Still not good enough, when that doesn't include those excused.

[dahamsta]

I'd imagine what all these people have an issue with is that the one group of people in the state who could make definite financial arrangements with lending institutions etc., without fear of pay loss etc, the public servants, are not looking at being up sheet creek without a paddle due to pay cuts for the second time in a year.

Sorry, but your argument is that public sector workers have an unalienable right to credit?

I think we have enough to worry about with their unalienable right to not get fired no matter what they do, or don't do.

adam

[Kingdom]

Sorry, but your argument is that public sector workers have an unalienable right to credit?

I think we have enough to worry about with their unalienable right to not get fired no matter what they do, or don't do.

adam

I'm speaking about myself here. I'm a lower tier (and paid) civil servant. Of the group of 9 lads that I've grown up with, I'm the lowest paid and the only civil servant. I had the choice of going to college or joining the civil service. I choose the later because of the one main perk of the job - a consistent wage to budget going forward in life. When that is taken away (and I mean we've been shafted once already this year, whats to say when it will stop?) and the contract of employment is changed, the remaining perks are few and far between, and completely unreliable.

I've no doubt the only reason I got a mortgage was because I'm a civil servant who has 31yrs service still to run.

Seeing as these cuts are supposed to be for the greater good, to try and get the economy to parity, when businesses pick up, and jobs become plentiful, will we see the same clamour for Public service wages to be restored?

Also I've absolutely no problem with the opinion that there are wasters in the Public service, they are plentiful, but there are quality employees too. At the end of the day most of us take direction, initiative (or toe stepping) is a practice applauded in the main.

(PS I know 4 Primary teachers who voted for strike action because they would get the day off...)

Either these people you know are idiots - voting for strike action so they can lose money? or they filling you up with a crock of something.

[passinginterest]

I think we have enough to worry about with their unalienable right to not get fired no matter what they do, or don't do.

adam

I'm sorry but that's simply not true, it may have been the case in the past but it's not any more. I work in a personnel section now and there are numerous disciplinary cases currently being dealt wit and there has been more than half a dozen dismissals in the last year.

Admittedly not all areas seem to apply the same standards and this is an issue that must be addressed but progress is being made.

[old git]

Quote from the article;

so newspaper actually stopped people in newry and asked them the questions... yes but how many people did they ask ... sounds like a headline seller for a paper .. i don't doubt some people did travel to newry but probally not in the numbers of public sector as implied in article and yes a also agree strike should have been called off in solidarity with the unfortunate people suffering due to floods.

[dahamsta]

@Kingdom, while I can understand someone getting a certain sense of stability out of working in the pubic sector, to be perfectly frank anyone that relies upon it deserves what they get. Particularly those than came in when benchmarking was happening. If it can go up, it can go down. Speaking personally, I'm having problems getting a small mortgage at the moment, and although I'll certainly bitch about it, you won't see me out on strike because of it.

@passinginterest, it might not be 100% true in your sector but I'm sure you'll agree there's more than an element of truth in it. In some sectors it's absolutely crazy, there are people in the health and local sectors that simply don't work. I don't mean they doss about like the rest of us, I mean they don't work. At all.

adam

[soccerc]

Why not? If everyone behaves themselves, what's the problem?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/...019/index.html

That piece of legislation is the problem


There are strict legal limits on picketing under the 1990 Industrial Relations Act.

Picketing must be by members who are employees of the organisation in question and union officials.

There must be only sufficient on picket duty to advise the relevant people – mass picketing is illegal.

Four to six is normally considered sufficient.

[dahamsta]

We had already discussed the law soccerc, I was asking what justified it.

[hoops1]

@Kingdom, while I can understand someone getting a certain sense of stability out of working in the pubic sector, to be perfectly frank anyone that relies upon it deserves what they get.
adam

I really dont get what you are trying to say here. Anyone that works in the public sector deserves to suffer because they have a job?

[dahamsta]

Did you not understand the emphasis of the bolded text?