Mine was not a quip, it was an observation. It seems you cannot detect tone in people's posts. Once again, for which party do you expect those people to vote for? Which party presents a viable alternative at this time?Originally Posted by Gather round
Does a 'Northern Ireland Nationalist Party' exist GR?
I'll resist answering for you.
It has dimmed your logic and observational skills. If I were to reply to posts in a similiar fashion to yourself, I would suggest that these faculties have escaped you for quite sometime, or maybe just in your excursions on foot.ie, but then.....I wouldn't do that.No, even the pressure of answering the same witless wind-up 60 times on this thread hasn't dimmed my faculties, thanks.
You also mention 'wind-ups' in your post. To that I will simply state, in case it has passed you by, that you do post a lot more on foot.ie than you do on your own supporters website - OWC.
Hmmmm........for some reason I'm getting images of pots and keetles in my mind.
They vote SF and SDLP because there is no viable (tribal) alternative - at this time, and hasn't been for a long time. The same applies to voters of the UUP and DUP, it is limiting - welcome back to NI. I have never stated that there will be no viable option for either community in the future. It has only been very recently that alternatives, in the form of Fianna Fail and the Conservatives, have appeared on the horizon. Has this fact escaped you as well.I am. I recognise that they vote for SF and SDLP. Are you assuming that they have no alternative now and forever? Bit limiting, that. They could- with enough will and organisation- persuade other parties to stand, then vote for them. You know, Labour, Conservative, LibDem, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, that sort of thing. But if they continue to vote SF and SDLP- basically single-issue parties- then I'll assume, quite reasonably, that they agree with the issue.
In addition to this, if you believe that the SDLP and SF are "basically single issue parties", then I'll assume, quite reasonably, that you believe the UUP and DUP to be likewise.
Change happens in increments, not in one foul swoop! I recommend that you read the works of Edmund Burke.
Of course people vote by choice, but in Northern Ireland voting for political parties is done along tribal lines, not along normal left-wing/right-wing lines. This is the reason why voter turn-out at Assembly and Westminister elections in Northern Ireland remains so high in comparison to other Western democracies - people want to make sure their 'tribe' gets in and receives as much representation as it can!See above. Of course I recognise- as a left-leaning Ulster unionist- the difficulty of finding the right (no pun intended) party to vote for. But you know what- it's the same over here. In many constituencies in England, the only choice is the big three. I don't support any of them, so my choices are abstain, spoil or concentrate on some other form of politics. I'm not damning people for voting nationalist, just recognising- as you seem unwilling to- that most do so by choice, not compulsion.
It's not the same in England, I'll ask you again; are you being deliberately dense?
The assembly here in NI does not operate on the 'first past the post' system, unless you have forgotten. It is based on the principle of power-sharing under the D'Hondt method to ensure that Northern Ireland's largest political communities, the Unionist and Nationalist communities both participate in governing the region.
Another important example for you, every MLA is officially designated as either Nationalist, Unionist or Other.
The only 'substantial' cross-community party in Northern Ireland is the Alliance Party, which officially designates itself as 'Other'. Despite this, it has remained a minnow in NI politics.
Are you keeping up this time GR?
It's not that hard really, all it takes is logic!
I feel obliged to state the obvious while 'conversing' with you GR, rather like a parent does to a child. Though it seems to have little effect, producing as it does, replies containing obvious contradictions and frankly, stupidty.Fine, thanks. Your mixture of cliche, pointless statement of the obvious and occasional cod-sociology is a bit disjointed, but I'm managing OK.
You don't see much initial impressions........hmmm.......what have I been saying againI'll react once they've contested an election. Although I don't see much initial impression.. Once more, change happens, (especially in NI), in increments.
Bravo - "they are well established". Maybe some logic is penetrating through at last. To make the final leap GR, add on to that........."along tribal lines."The other parties are well-established and- as you may have noticed- Fianna Fail's image both home and abroad at the moment is about as popular as typhoid.
Last edited by The Fly; 08/12/2009 at 5:28 AM.
Good last post there by The Fly. And one of many in response to a rather patronising tone!
And whilst I don't agree with EG, his 'new improved more mellow' approach states a position far more eloquently in one post re.the IFA 'situation', than his 'countrymen' (Are they 'British' or 'Irish' today??)
Though would acknowledge credit to NB identifying certain empathy with certain Irish traits!
Which we wait to see if denied ??
Does the fact that FIFA recognises the right of NI born players to represent the ROI (and vice versa?) not suggest that they may be sympathetic to two associations (consensually) merging, perhaps recognising unusual if not unique circumstances?
Just because they've never done so in the past doesn't mean they never would. My granny's 95 and hasn't died yet, but it doesn't mean she never will.
Also, when countries break away from a larger power they're unlikely to say "we're now 100% independent but in order to stay competitive in international football we'd like to underplay our nationalistic instincts and be part of a larger interntaional football team".
very well done madam
I should have added that that particular granny is a hypothetical one, a bit like Stephen Ireland's.
We can't look at the Setanta Cup as an excuse for not seeting up an AIL.
The fact is, if the best clubs from both the LOI and the IPL played in a new 12 team league (preferbly in control of the FAI/IFA), there would certainly be a major broadcasting deal, sponsorship deals, marketing etc.
Thats if, both the FAI/IFA are commited to it, it would and should work, as for the AI international team, it can work and its inevitable, but if the Nordies are so fussy about it i say don't bother, it's stupid at this stage the level of patriotism up there.I'm not even that proud to be Irish, mainly because i'm not even full Irish.
The fact in my view is most english folk ridicule the whole NI situation, for those of you who think otherwise, fine, but whenever i'd have a conversation with an English person, and the topic is Norn Iron, it's just frowned upon over there i'm sorry.
Because i'm not even fully irish and better yet i'm not even Catholic, i'm for an AIL and an AI team, purely for football reasons, and not political.
An AI league could easily happen without an AI team, no?
I'm of the opinion that if NI or ROI fans don't want an AI team then they shouldn't be made to have one. But I'd hope that for the sake of improving standards and finances (if a link could be reasonably expected) of their teams' league that neither would object to an AI league.
not catholic!? stab the b@sterd!!!
I think Ealing Green is right when he suggests that FIFA will never force two football associations to merge when those two associations represent different countries. So it would be up to the two associations to come to a mutually beneficial agreement, and I just can't see the IFA having any interest in merging, as they've nothing whatsoever to gain from it. I can't see it (1 international team) happening before the political union of NI and ROI (if and whenever that happens).
I honestly don't know how you can use words like "fact" or "certainly" when talking about an AIL. It's all speculation, and the only current cross-border competition doesn't help your argument.
It's not vice versa.
Offered, and refused.
The FAI have an All Ireland team.
End of story.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 07/12/2009 at 11:17 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
yay!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Acornvilla; 07/12/2009 at 11:23 PM.
Are you sure about that? I had it in my mind that it was offered, but the IFA turned it down as wanted to continue to argue against the idea of the FAI getting players from IFA jurisdiction.
So actually, "offered and refused" would be right!
Or am I mistaken?
Last edited by osarusan; 07/12/2009 at 11:25 PM.
They're both.And whilst I don't agree with EG, his 'new improved more mellow' approach states a position far more eloquently in one post re.the IFA 'situation', than his 'countrymen' (Are they 'British' or 'Irish' today??)
Aye, so they keep saying (when it suits). One or the other is fair enough. But not
No wonder people in general are confused.
Why not both?One or the other is fair enough. But not
FIFA offered the IFA the option of picking from throughout the 32 as a "compromise"...it was refused.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
What's confusing you?Aye, so they keep saying (when it suits). One or the other is fair enough. But not
No wonder people in general are confused.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I would suggest that it was refused for reasons of self-preservation. If the IFA had accepted the offer, then the case for one international team would have become a no-brainer, both domestically and within FIFA.
Whether it was right or wrong, ethically speaking, to do so, the IFA made a stategic blunder in pursuing the Darron Gibson case with FIFA as it effectively advertised the fact that players born in NI can now play for the ROI. In the longer term however, it may prove to be a good thing for the future of football in NI - if it promotes a certain self-examination within the IFA and Northern Ireland footballing circles in general.
But.....for the IFA to have accepted FIFA's compromise offer, would have been absurd.
Last edited by The Fly; 07/12/2009 at 11:43 PM.
Reluctantly accepting the EG position (though still feel FIFA may intervene re.the 4 British associations, as the world of sports 'politics' is extremely grubby), to be fair to Walker and their like (myself included) an AI team was less about agreement with the IFA (though that would be preferred) and more about such a 'notional' team having improved chances of qualifying....
And yes we know the majority of certain sports fans are against it. Fair enough. Though sounding less like a
Problem?
You've got no fans.
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