How do you envisage that arising?Originally Posted by janeymac
Genuine question.
In the hypothetical event of there being a, singular, Irish team, would you uphold the right of someone born in Northern Ireland, going to Court if neccessary, in order to have the right to "express his national identity", by declaring to play for one of the British Associations?
Last edited by Not Brazil; 10/12/2009 at 4:54 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Fair enough, If you have 'access all areas'.
But it has been on there frequently enough in the past.
But hypocrisy aside, it's their failure to engage, like NB (!), with an opposing view, which is the biggest gripe about that place!
That was my point exactly. But words taigs and fenians are not used.
No, AB it hasn't.
You have been shown up to be telling porkies - the most honourable thing would be to simply retract what you passed as a truth, for whatever your motive.
Anyone using the term "taigs" in a derogatory way would be immediately banned.
It is difficult to engage and discuss with people who seek to fabricate the truth - I have no problem engaging with anyone/anywhere/anytime who holds oppossing views to myself, provided they come to the table with honesty and integrity.
Whilst I may fundamentally disagree with another persons' opinions/views, I respect and uphold their right to articulate them in a honest, non offensive, manner.
If you are not capable of that, there seems to be plenty of honest, sincere, folk here who are.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
What "real questions" about the institutions have you asked there dan, and in what way were you "hounded by wolves"?
Do you mean that you raised issues that a lot of people disagreed with, and told you so, and why?
I'm sure myself, GR, and EG don't expect our opinions/questions here to be met with universal approval, nor do we expect an easy ride on a Republic Of Ireland fans forum.
What, exactly, is wrong with having a section of the forum specific to our numerous Supporters Clubs in Great Britain, in order that they can promote events etc?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
There probably is, but I wish someone would articulate it with substance based on anything other than fluffy speculation.
One Club eg, Linfield FC, CANNOT stop it.
ANY Club is entitled to express their opposition to it.
It's fair to say that other member clubs of the IFA are opposed to it - and not based on "political" reasons (I've heard many Cliftonville FC supporters, of a "nationalist" hue, express opposition to it!)
Linfield FC, and other IL Clubs, are members of the Irish Football Association.
If the Irish Football Association decide that they wish member clubs to be participants in an AIL, then we'll see what happens.
The other alternative is that Clubs breakaway from their respective Associations and form an AIL.
Speaking from a Linfield FC perspective, the Club has publicly stated they are committed to playing in the league currently organised and administered by the Irish Football Association.
For the Club to breakaway, it would require a vote by the Club members - don't know how that would go, but would predict it would not receive the approval of the neccessary majority.
The experiences of Linfield FC and it's supporters in the Setanta Cup have been largely favourable....consequently, I know many fans who don't rule out the prospect of playing in an AIL of sorts, depending on various factors.
However, there is nothing on the table, Delaney has shelved the notion, the IFA aren't bothered and it's not happening anytime soon.
In the meantime, I personally hope that some sort of cross border competition can be sustained.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 10/12/2009 at 6:41 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Another downside to not qualifying, this endless/tiresome debate surfaces again.What I like about football, is that it recognises the reality, ie ROI and NI are two different states.The four green fields misty eyed mythology, the IRFU and GAA indulge in is cringing,especially during " the two anthems" in Croke Park.
Yes, it's interesting that in one of the aforementioned sports, many of it's supporters wax lyrical about how the Anthem and Emblems used by the IFA are "contentious in Northern Ireland", but see no such issue on the usage of another "contentious" Anthem and Emblems within Northern Ireland at their fixtures.
But, as we are led to believe, it's only those pesky Unionist types that are hypocrites.
Good post SUB.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Tír Eoghan abú!
Folding my way into the big money!!!
What's your suggestion? A ROI rugby team and an all-ROI GAA championship?
Each to their own. I think the unity expressed through the all Ireland institutions of GAA and the IRFU among others is a good thing and doesn't serve to deepen the divide between the two parts of the island.
You can recognise the 'reality' and still have all-Ireland institutions. There's nothing wrong with it in my opinion. Then again, maybe I'm just indulging in 'misty eyed mythology'.
In the case of one of the aforementioned bodies, one of them has done little or nothing to "unite" the people of the island, and the other thinks playing in Belfast is an "away" fixture - you can "unite" land all you like, but you'll never have a "united" country until it's people are united. I think John Hume once said something similar.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Fair points indeed, still, like a lot of things in Ireland, that probably has a lot to do with the 'dinosaurs' in charge. Things could change with the GAA and I don't understand why the IRFU classes Belfast as 'away' (I think it's stupid in fact). The idea of all-Ireland institutions is a good one is basically what I was saying.
Indeed - to "unite" people (whether that be in the context of All Ireland things, or within Northern Ireland) leaders need to examine "barriers to inclusion", and deal with them.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
There's nothing to deny. Sorry, seen it & similar with my own eyes. Though it's hard to say how prevalent it is now, if at all, given only a select few are allowed access.
But like I say it's not the language so much, but the failure to engage.
And have no problems with your views on here, except accomodating an AI team....
Ah yes, that well known bastion of Irish 'nationalism', the IRFU!
Though met people from N.E. Ulster in tow with them and London Irish, 'waving' tricolours.
And to be fair moaning about it. Despite others pointing out the colour scheme of the flag!!!
What's the "colour scheme of the flag" got to do with anything?Though met people from N.E. Ulster in tow with them and London Irish, 'waving' tricolours.
And to be fair moaning about it. Despite others pointing out the colour scheme of the flag!!!
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I believe, throughout the thread, I have expressed my acceptance of "an AI team" - the one that represents the FAI.And have no problems with your views on here, except accomodating an AI team....
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
No, I don't see a difference. 'Ulstermen' scans and in any case anyone interested knows that most of the fans are likely to be unionists. They don't sing 'Ulstermen' to show how unionist they are.
Burns was and is a big NI fan. He was in town the other day for a book launch. A muso mate of mine went along, hoping that now-Minneapolis-based and Crues-supporting guitarist Henry Cluney would show and buy a drink for the first time since 1983. He didn't, alas.
Most would accept that the atmosphere at NI games is better now than it was in the 80s or 70s. I'm less bothered about before that time, I wasn't going. It's pretty much ancient history.
Up to a point. Arsenal v Rangers (ie the two largest and most successful clubs from Britain's two largest cities) doesn't have that spark, largely because it isn't a derby.I disagree. The two largest and most successfull clubs from Irelands two largest cities is going to have a spark most other games won't
The FAI can scout where they like. We need a new mutual agreement that prevents either side picking players who have already appeared for the other as adults.
I think you were right the first time, most British fans would be indifferent, it wouldn't directly affect them. I see no reason that they'd be particularly in favor. But you're daydreaming, it isn't going to happen without mutual support in Ireland. Which doesn't exist.If there was an All Ireland team, noone in GB would blink. Most would probably favour it...It does not affect Wales/Scotland fans in any way
But to dwell for a moment on Wales and Scotland (as you have). You can't on the one hand cite FIFA/ the rest-of-the-World's supposed opposition to Britain's having four international sides as evidence of the inevitable push to an all-Ireland side (as many on the thread have done), and then blithely assume the Scots and Welsh will back you. One doesn't follow from the other, in fact they directly contradict.
More empty cliche. NI has many singular and unique traits to those of us from there, but your persistent assumption that the rest of UEFA are particularly engaged by them doesn't follow. They aren't bothered. They've been playing for us for a century and plan to keep doing so.NI is a place apart in all things, including football
See above and the need for a new mutual agreement.The IFA should issue a statement that they are stopping opposition to letting the future Darren Gibsons playing for the ROI, no apology needed for their behaviour just lets move on
OK, I've no problem with the South's anthem or flag and I'd like a new anthem at NI games. We disagree about the extent to which it's a hot issue.There is no onus on the FAI to change anthems or flags as none are contentious. The issues are all up north
Slight over-reaction, eh?Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out
Point taken. Resistance from those opposed to change needn't always be pandered to, of course- if what they were defending was some horrible racist ditty, say. But it isn't. So evolution rather than revolution (although I'd prefer us to install Gloria or Alternative Ulster as the new anthem tomorrow).I totally disagree with them when they say they have to consider the views of fans who wish to keep it
If you're that bothered, take it up with your assemblyman/ woman. And s/he'll say, quote "I'd love to help Dan, but there's no chance of a vote".The people of NI have a right to know why this is not the case, not just NI fans
I understand why you think it silly, but it's easily explained. We'd prefer both to remain part of a united Britain (as for centuries) while having a separate NI team (as for a century). No contradiction there, and actually your interest looks a bit obsessive.As stated, only England and NI do not have their own anthem. And only NI's is contentoius...Playing a UK anthem while campainging against a UK team is a bit silly no
Fine, don't. It was irrelevant the first time. Everyone recognises there's a border.It is very relevant NI and ROI are not foreign under UK law. I'll not explain again
For God's sake man, get over it, it was 90 years ago! Nobody forced the FAI to do anythng, it was their choice.The FAI was forced to be set up after the bigotted IFA made life impossible for the Dublin clubs
Equally, try not to be so excitable, and don't assume everyone who disagrees with you is loyalist bigot. There's no chance of the two merging, so to that limited extent at least there's a parallel.NI and the ROI merging are no the same as Germany and China merging. Only a loyalist bigot would make such a stupid analogy, ffs grow up
I've no time for the Orange Order and (separately) I think Raymond Kennedy is a bit lacklustre. It doesn't follow that the IFA is orange-tinted any more than Delaney's antics mean the FAI and their team's followers are deluded fantasists.Saying the IFA are orange tinted is hardly inaccurate. Their chairman is an Orangeman. He was elected by people who knew the image that would send out. This hardly looks good if they are trying to implement a FFA campaign. Saying it is orange tinted and nearly there are hardly contradictions either. The IFA used to be very orange now its somewhat orange. One day it may be neutral? Not difficult to grasp
We're moving on already.Linfield have sorted themselves out, but when that deal is gone we can move on
They're equally open to debate. Without wanting to trade too much 'whataboutery', we're on a 1000 post thread full of people who want to abolish another country's team for what can't be more than vindictive reasons. What sort of a debate is that?The OWC website is much less open to debate than this one. The tern taigs is not used, but beggars is
Ha ha. And the relevance of that being what exactly? Look, I don't like and don't use the term beggars. It's relevance to British government finance generally is a bit limited, no?Ironic for a state maintained by the public sector (ie English taxpayer)!
It isn't; so what? That's where they (including me) live. Spare us the pretend surprise/ outrage.The NI fans group is mainly a closed shop. The have a section for "mainlanders" ffs!
Well I laughed. But you need to work on some of the other material.Their £5 donation goes straight to the UVF
If Linfield don't want to join it, it almost certainly won't happen as Glentoran and other NI clubs wouldn't join either.There is a strong, separate, case for an AIL. One club e.g Linfield should not be able to stop this should the clubs desire it
Yes, the people of Belfast were grateful then and since. I remember it being mentioned after the Stardust nightclub fire in Artane in 1981, when the Belfast brigade drove South to help their Dublin colleagues.I presume you are suitably thankful to the Free State for sending ambulances & fire engines etc. to save Belfast and to Dev for persuading Hitler to stop bombing our people there (since the RAF couldn't be arsed defending them
De Valera wasn't entirely successful in persuading Hitler not to bomb Dublin, btw.
Last edited by Gather round; 11/12/2009 at 9:18 AM.
I do have the odd look at OWC site and though I do not see the term taig used The ROI are often referred to as Beggars.Basically, you have been unable to substantiate your spurious allegations.
There's no "we'll" about it - it was YOU, and YOU alone, who made the allegation.
Indeed, your allegation regarding the "common place" usage of the term "taigs" has been refuted by dan (whom, it appears is able to "access all areas" on "that MB"
He states above:
"The term taigs is not used"
Now, are you telling me that dantheman is really a Unionist?
A little bit of more work to be done on respecting the neighbours and losing the old bigoted mindset.
Anyway if an All-Ireland team had the sticking power (and the tenacity) of this thread then it would be a force to be reckoned with.
If this could be translated to the football team there would be no stopping us
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