Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

**Gather round** · 07/12/2009, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Janey Mac

But its not about saying prayers! Its how you behave. For instance protestant culture would be to shut down on a Sunday and not play games etc. whereas that would not be in the catholic psychic who would regard sport as being a celebration of life

Come on, apart from voting differently and going to different churches, there are few broad differences between Catholic/ nationalist and Protestant/ unionist Sunday cultural behavior. Both groups go shopping at Sprucefield before sitting time to watch Man U on TV, and so on.

You might have mentioned the IFA's long-term (and embarrassing) unwillingness to sanction Sunday matches. There are a few dinosaurs about, of course.

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 3:09 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

I agree with you about the identity of Northern Ireland / unionists. I don't think that is a problem though for NI nationalists. They know who they are.

But its not about saying prayers! Its how you behave. For instance protestant culture would be to shut down on a Sunday and not play games etc. whereas that would not be in the catholic psychic who would regard sport as being a celebration of life.

As a "Unionist", I can assure you I know exactly who and what I am - I can't speak for other Unionists though.

I genuinely don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't give a flying one about stereotypical differing expressions of religious cultures.

I play/watch sport on a Sunday - it's got nothing to do with "culture" to me.

I do so because I enjoy doing so - if others choose not to, that's entirely up to them. "Culture" will never stop me playing/watching sport on a Sunday.

Perhaps I'm a Protestant with a Catholic phyche?

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

You might have mentioned the IFA's long-term (and embarrassing) unwillingness to sanction Sunday matches. There are a few dinosaurs about, of course.

Aye, dinasaurs who aren't adverse to playing on a Sunday if the dosh is right.

If the USA say the proposed friendly will be played at Craven Cottage on a Sunday, and it's worth a million bucks to the IFA (as reported), do you think the dinasaurs will say no?

Anyway, didn't the IFA relax the rules on Sunday football recently... there's been a few IL games played on a Sunday recently? And rightly so.

**Gather round** · 07/12/2009, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by third policeman

Maybe, but we dont have any data on that do we. That's why in an earlier post I suggested that the issue of merger should be the subject of proper consultation in both jurisdictions. If a merged football team did not succeed in commanding broad support then, I agree, from my perspective it would not be a sensible way forward

An abolished NI team wouldn't command ANY support among NI fans.

This is not a scientific poll, but interestingly none of my Unionist friends and relations in the North would have any problem supporting a merged football team, in the same way that they support the Ireland Rugby and cricket teams

If your anecdotal friends and relations (want to) support NI, that's great. If they, conversely, want the team to be abolished, quite obviously they don't, er, support NI. (As you may have read above, I support the Ireland cricket team, but that's as far as the parallel goes).

Originally Posted by Janey Mac

Nothing got to do with church going. Did you not notice that the southern German's were much better crack? I think its something to do with knowing if we confess we will be forgiven for our sins

Actually, I didn't and in my experience they weren't. Maybe because I wouldn't generalise about a huge country based on a short time living there plus a few later holidays. Have you actually ever been there, or just drunk in a theme Hofbrauhaus somewhere outside the country?

**janeymac** · 07/12/2009, 3:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Come on, apart from voting differently and going to different churches, there are few broad differences between Catholic/ nationalist and Protestant/ unionist Sunday cultural behavior. Both groups go shopping at Sprucefield before sitting time to watch Man U on TV, and so on.

You might have mentioned the IFA's long-term (and embarrassing) unwillingness to sanction Sunday matches. There are a few dinosaurs about, of course.

It is said that the GAA saved this country after the civil war when neighbour fought with neighbour. Sport was used to get over political differences and play gaa together for the good of the parish.

Interesting that you only describe British cultural things in common (shopping & Man U). I get the impression from most unionist representatives that they despite Irish culture (music, sport & language). Am I right?

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

It is said that the GAA saved this country after the civil war when neighbour fought with neighbour. Sport was used to get over political differences and play gaa together for the good of the parish.

Interesting that you only describe British cultural things in common (shopping & Man U). I get the impression from most unionist representatives that they despite Irish culture (music, sport & language). Am I right?

Are we not straying from the subject matter somewhat here?

**Gather round** · 07/12/2009, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

Interesting that you only describe British cultural things in common (shopping & Man U). I get the impression from most unionist representatives that they despite Irish culture (music, sport & language). Am I right?

Janey, I've tried to answer all the points where I disagree on this thread, but yours are just off the wall. Manchester United are the first or second best supported football club in Ireland. Shopping isn't a British cultural phenomenon, it's going to the shops and buying things. It's Worldwide. You're bonkers

I guess most unionist politicians are indifferent to much fiddle diddle music, Gaelic sports and the Irish language. A few are hostile, a few others enthusiastic. None of those things are the sole examples of Irish culture in their areas, of course.

**janeymac** · 07/12/2009, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Actually, I didn't and in my experience they weren't. Maybe because I wouldn't generalise about a huge country based on a short time living there plus a few later holidays. Have you actually ever been there, or just drunk in a theme Hofbrauhaus somewhere outside the country?

I've had a few beers in Germany alright - but I'm not basing my opinion completely on that - more so on German music and literature.

**janeymac** · 07/12/2009, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Are we not straying from the subject matter somewhat here?

Subject matter is how do you unite a country behind a team. GAA did that in the republic.
IFA are not doing that in NI.

**janeymac** · 07/12/2009, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Janey, I've tried to answer all the points where I disagree on this thread, but yours are just off the wall. Manchester United are the first or second best supported football club in Ireland. Shopping isn't a British cultural phenomenon, it's going to the shops and buying things. It's Worldwide. You're bonkers

I guess most unionist politicians are indifferent to much fiddle diddle music, Gaelic sports and the Irish language. A few are hostile, a few others enthusiastic. None of those things are the sole examples of Irish culture in their areas, of course.

There is nothing wrong with following Man Utd (or shopping) as far as I'm concerned (I get a bit annoyed when Irish people start referring to them as 'we' though!).

The point is, that nationalists are not hostile to British culture in the same way as most unionist politicians (who are elected by protestants/unionists) are downright hostile to Irish culture. Is it any wonder nationalists get ****ed off?

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

GAA did that in the republic.
IFA are not doing that in NI.

The GAA are not "uniting" anything up here - but, that's by the by.

Given the differences of nationality, politics, and expression of same, in Northern Ireland, there is only so far the IFA can go. By nature (ie. team called "Northern Ireland") it ain't going to be everyone's cup of tea. Fair dues.

Denying the existance of the IFA, and supporters of it's International representive team, err, their team, will not solve anything constructively.

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

The point is, that nationalists are not hostile to British culture in the same way as most unionist politicians (who are elected by protestants/unionists) are downright hostile to Irish culture. Is it any wonder nationalists get ****ed off?

Aye - Nationalists/Republicans are "champions" of British culture on the island, right enough.

**The Fly** · 07/12/2009, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

For those who oppose the place called Northern Ireland, they can elect to play for the FAI team, and support it's representative sides.

Those fans/players don't have a sense of statehood/national identity with Northern Ireland. It is big leap in 'logic' to suggest that they also, by extension, oppose it's existance.

**janeymac** · 07/12/2009, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Aye - Nationalists/Republicans are "champions" of British culture on the island, right enough.

Less of the rolling of the eyes there - British originated sport is played right throughout the island of Ireland. We're also rather good at writing in a British language (especially Seamus Heaney). In fact it would say that Irish writers have done more than anyone else for the English (British) language.

I'm scratching my head to think of any British person who has done anything to champion Irish culture (nor do I expect them to!).

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Fly

Those fans/players don't have a sense of statehood/national identity with Northern Ireland. It is big leap in 'logic' to suggest that they also, by extension, oppose it's existance.

They are free to express their sense of "statehood/national identity" by playing for the FAI team, if they so wish.

They will not be seeing the end of our team in consequence.

Those who see their identity better expressed by playing for/supporting Northern Ireland are wholly entitled to that right.

It's about choice.

Perhaps, given they don't oppose it's (Northern Ireland's) existance (as you suggest), they will respect the right of Northern Ireland to have an International football team, called Northern Ireland? That wouldn't be a big leap in "logic", would it?

**janeymac** · 07/12/2009, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

The GAA are not "uniting" anything up here - but, that's by the by.

Given the differences of nationality, politics, and expression of same, in Northern Ireland, there is only so far the IFA can go. By nature (ie. team called "Northern Ireland") it ain't going to be everyone's cup of tea. Fair dues.

Denying the existance of the IFA, and supporters of it's International representive team, err, their team, will not solve anything constructively.

The IFA were in a position to do something about uniting the two traditions as soccer was already played by both communities. The IFA messed up big time by being political at a time when it should have been neutral.

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

Less of the rolling of the eyes there - British originated sport is played right throughout the island of Ireland. We're also rather good at writing in a British language (especially Seamus Heaney). In fact it would say that Irish writers have done more than anyone else for the English (British) language.

I'm scratching my head to think of any British person who has done anything to champion Irish culture (nor do I expect them to!).

Enjoy your music, enjoy your sport, enjoy your language, enjoy your culture...let others who don't share your enthusiasm be different from you.

None of the things you mentioned do I despise - some I enjoy too.

**Not Brazil** · 07/12/2009, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by janeymac

The IFA were in a position to do something about uniting the two traditions as soccer was already played by both communities. The IFA messed up big time by being political at a time when it should have been neutral.

In what way?

**The Fly** · 07/12/2009, 4:42 PM

If one were to take Northern Ireland as an entity, and ask each person "do you think that the two football associations in Ireland, the FAI and IFA, should amalgamate and as a result, produce one representative international football team?", then I would say there would be a good chance of the overall result being - Yes!
But, that is not the point.
If you were to put the same question solely to Northern Ireland fans, in particular NB's block bookers, then the answer, at this time, would be a resounding - No!
Why?
Because, the Northern Ireland international team is one of the only outlets for people of the 'Irish' unionist persuasion in NI, and for the purposes of this discussion - on the island as a whole, to follow or support in any kind of competitive arena.

There is a certain ignorance* on the part of people in the Republic towards NI issues and society in general. If there were a united all-island side tomorrow, almost a sixth of the population within this new jurisdiction would have little or no allegiance to the team and would struggle to identify with it. More importantly, the same applies on the issue of national, political reunification. Is that something desirable? Not to me, it's better to just let things take their course naturally.

* I wouldn't feel much guilt, as in this case - ignorance is most definately bliss!