Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[co. down green]

Uncalled for. They are Irish and have the passport to prove it (assuming they are not another Tony Cascarino).

Cascarino is more Irish than the North's goalkeeper Maik Taylor, at least Cas thought his grandfather was Irish

You've already got a united Ireland team, albeit with three Englishmen and a Scot included it's pretty much a glorified all-Britain select.

You would think from that comment that the North’s team was in some way different, now or in the past.

I presume you were happy enough supporting the English-German-Zambian 6 county select team that represented the North under ten years ago? No less than nine players born in England, Germany & Zambia played for the North in a European Championship qualifier in 99.

Was having 9 players born in other countries a problem for you and did you regard them as a glorified European/African select eleven?. Is it a problem for you that your current u21 side is made up of English born players like Norwood, Dudgeon, Magnay, Hodson etc…?

[Dassa]

They fear change, 1 Island = 1 Team and our prospects for qualification would be much greater.

I dont fear change in the slightest, however changes that will be to my detriment am I supposed to sit back and let happen?

Everyone uses the rugby as an example but look at how its worked out,

all games in just 1 of the capital cities -Dublin

All symbols, Tricolours of one side

Anthem - Only one anthem used at home game for ireland team.

Is this realy an example of cross community unity or is it a case of this is how it is sit there and lump it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You've already got a united Ireland team, albeit with three Englishmen and a Scot included it's pretty much a glorified all-Britain select.

we regularly manage to beat higher-ranked teams in it, we're happy enough.

Er, they are all Irish citizens.

Over 50 non-Six Counties born players have represented the North since their last Finals appearance twenty-odd years ago (That must be Finals well into double figures they've missed out and counting.....), but so what.

They like numerous others, even England, have gone round casting for all and sundry.
Ade Adebola springs to mind! But at least soccer isn't as farcical as rugby and cricket in this respect where you only need 6 years residency!

As for regularly beating teams;what about all those years the North went without scoring? And once David Healy retires, where'll their goals come from? It's about consistency anyway. Iceland springs to mind!

[ArdeeBhoy]

I dont fear change in the slightest, however changes that will be to my detriment am I supposed to sit back and let happen?

Everyone uses the rugby as an example but look at how its worked out,

all games in just 1 of the capital cities -Dublin

All symbols, Tricolours of one side

Anthem - Only one anthem used at home game for ireland team.

Is this realy an example of cross community unity or is it a case of this is how it is sit there and lump it.

To be fair Dassa, people have suggested numerous ways round this, but in the main has been thrown back in our face, as If we're the IRFU or something??

Though could just be the usual 'whataboutery'.....

[John83]

...But at least soccer isn't as farcical as rugby and cricket in this respect where you only need 6 years residency!...

Yeah, that could never happen in football.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1A1-D90GPSFO2.html

EDIT: 5 years residency in the past 9 years is enough for Irish citizenship. Then you're eligible to play for the national team. You know, like Kevin Hunt was asked about a few years back.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, that could never happen in football.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1A1-D90GPSFO2.html

EDIT: 5 years residency in the past 9 years is enough for Irish citizenship. Then you're eligible to play for the national team. You know, like Kevin Hunt was asked about a few years back.

Hmm. OK, but that's not widely broadcast. And wonder how many any other players would be deemed 'eligible' by such means. Currently this seems to be one of the very few things FIFA have got right, though if anyone can mess it up....

[Not Brazil]

As for regularly beating teams;what about all those years the North went without scoring? And once David Healy retires, where'll their goals come from? It's about consistency anyway. Iceland springs to mind!

Ah, the halcyon days. I was at every single minute of that (then) record breaking achievement. The sense of belonging was special - in the face of adversity.

Healy hasn't exactly been scoring prolifically for us for 2 years.

Whatever the solution to our goalscoring issues is, it'll be someone representing Northern Ireland that provides it.

You see, it's Northern Ireland for Northern Ireland fans - highs and lows.

The underdog tag suits us just fine. The minnow that can bite the best of them.

One day, I'll maybe see the "Holy Grail" of Northern Ireland qualify for a major Finals. I was blessed to be in Valencia in 1982, the night we beat the hosts.

Maybe, I won't see the likes again.

If we were obssessed about qualifying, we'd be prime movers for an All UK team - we're not. We vehemently oppose such a move.

Whatever our destiny, it will be as a Northern Ireland team - count on it.

Do you remember how exercised you got about "allowing choice" during the eligibility debate?

Right back at you now kid.

[Gather round]

Uncalled for. They are Irish and have the passport to prove it

Come on, it's hardly the elephant in the room we're not allowed to mention. I didn't claim they weren't Irish. And read back in the thread, where poster Fly claimed airily that some people (unionists, basically), WERE less Irish than others, as determined by his semi-coherent pseudo-scientific horsesh*t about quotients of Irishness and their relation to schizophrenia blah blah.

But enough of that; as oft-repeated above I've mentioned them mainly to illustrate the point that many on this thread have declined to answer, or maybe to grasp. You already have the chance to pick any player from Ireland or anyone else with one Irish grannny. You don't need to abolish our team to do it.

If it works for other sports why can't it work for football?

Pretty much for the same reason that although Bray has an esplanade, it'll never compete with Monto Carlo...

You would think from that comment that the North’s team was in some way different, now or in the past

You wouldn't if you'd bothered to read earlier in the thread. I said clearly that I prefer NI's players, as opposed to their grandparents, to have grown up here and come through school and youth sides. Mainly because having a majority of players in the side who haven't makes international football look a bit silly, in my opinion. So no, I wansn't particularly happy. Your presumption is wrong.

As also made clear above (and in other threads repeatedly) I don't see any real difference in principle between Darron Gibson playing for you, and Maik Taylor or Oliver Norwood for us.

[Predator]

More seriously, the cyclical nature of football applies more to smaller countries. In the last 10 years, Northern Ireland have produced ONE player (Jonny Evans) of the highest quality, ie good enough to play regularly at the sharp end of the Champions' League. There's no guarantee that we'll even match that in the next decade. So any notional all-Ireland side just isn't necessarily going to be significantly stronger than you are at the moment, is it?

Not significantly stronger I'll admit, but stronger nonetheless.

But enough of that; as oft-repeated above I've mentioned them mainly to illustrate the point that many on this thread have declined to answer, or maybe to grasp. You already have the chance to pick any player from Ireland or anyone else with one Irish grannny. You don't need to abolish our team to do it.

The RoI team would be abolished along with the NI team in the event of an all-Ireland team. The chance is there to pick anyone from NI but obviously not everyone from NI would want to play for RoI, as you say. In the case of an all-Ireland team, people would only have one team to play for and the best players would be in the one team (bar Stephen Ireland of course!). Nothing political or tribal, just sport. It's that simple.

As also made clear above (and in other threads repeatedly) I don't see any real difference in principle between Darron Gibson playing for you, and Maik Taylor or Oliver Norwood for us.

Would you rather Taylor played for Germany and Norwood for England?

[Gather round]

The RoI team would be abolished along with the NI team in the event of an all-Ireland team

Ha ha. Do better, nobody seriously believes that. Your fellow fans both on this thread now, and if it ever happened in practice, would expect all the games in Dublin in your spanking new super-stadia, mass waving of tricolors and the Soldiers' song in honor of President Mary McNazi-hunter or successor. Just like rugby union. Not interested, thanks.

Nothing political or tribal, just sport. It's that simple

You're killing me now. Or course it's political, it's international sport. The clue's in the name.

Would you rather Taylor played for Germany and Norwood for England?

Aye, pretty much. Of course I realise this is possibly hypocritical- as I cheer them as much as the other players- and certainly eccentric, as even the biggest countries pick players who've only moved there as adults. But hey, I can live with that. With my team abolished such eccentricity would be irrelevant...

[co. down green]

Sorry Gather round, just to clarify my earlier point, you said

You've already got a united Ireland team, albeit with three Englishmen and a Scot included it's pretty much a glorified all-Britain select.

Does that mean you regard you team as being an English-German-Zambian 6 county select team during the late nineties?

[Gather round]

Aye, pretty much (although Jeff Whitley played all his schools and youth representative football in Wrexham and for the Man City academies). The difference is that I'm not suggesting abolishing England, Germany or Zambia's international sides, in the way you'd axe Northern Ireland's.

[Predator]

Ha ha. Do better, nobody seriously believes that. Your fellow fans both on this thread now, and if it ever happened in practice, would expect all the games in Dublin in your spanking new super-stadia, mass waving of tricolors and the Soldiers' song in honor of President Mary McNazi-hunter or successor. Just like rugby union. Not interested, thanks.

I've read the threads on OWC and I've seen all the mockery of the idea, don't worry. I've read some posts from posters who wouldn't expect such things to transpire in the event it happened, but Dublin has the superior infrastructure, why not make use of it?

You're killing me now. Or course it's political, it's international sport. The clue's in the name.

Admittedly, I recognise that international sport is fundamentally political, but sport itself does not have to be politically driven. Would you support an all-Ireland team in the event of re-unification? Or would you boycott the idea and not support the team at all? (If you've mentioned it, forgive me for not caring enough to read back through the thread. I'm not religiously committed to foot.ie)

Aye, pretty much. Of course I realise this is possibly hypocritical- as I cheer them as much as the other players- and certainly eccentric, as even the biggest countries pick players who've only moved there as adults. But hey, I can live with that. With my team abolished such eccentricity would be irrelevant...

Possibly indeed. It would be a shame if you were denied such a luxury and me, of course, who would also be denied such eccentricity with my team abolished, but I can live with that.

[co. down green]

your spanking new super-stadia, mass waving of tricolors and the Soldiers' song in honor of President Mary McNazi-hunter or successor.

I presume that is why you prefer your 'pigeon shed' ground at Windsor Park with its mass waving of union jacks & unionist flags, the English national anthem, no surrender chants & all looked over by the Orange Order president of the IFA?

. The difference is that I'm not suggesting abolishing England, Germany or Zambia's international sides, in the way you'd axe Northern Ireland's.

I wasn't aware that i suggested abolishing the North's team?

[Gather round]

I've read the threads on OWC and I've seen all the mockery of the idea, don't worry. I've read some posts from posters who wouldn't expect such things to transpire in the event it happened

I haven't (although like you I don't pretend to keep up with evey thread). If I did, I'd say as to you that they were mischievous or naive.

but Dublin has the superior infrastructure, why not make use of it?

Er...you are making use of it. You'll fill Lansdowne again as you have Croke in recent years. As an outsider and occasional visitor I'm impressed by both.

Would you support an all-Ireland team in the event of re-unification? Or would you boycott the idea and not support the team at all?

I don't expect the NI team nor country to cease to exist in the foreseeable future so the question doesn't arise However, I do support the Ireland cricket team and watch it regularly. I'd prefer if it was a Northern Ireland team (as you may know, there were twice as many NI as Southern players in the squad for the 2020 World Cup last year). Admittedly the two best Irish players (from Dublin and Bray respectively) currently play for England. I don't follow rugby union at all really, so cricket's the best parallel I can offer.

and me, of course, who would also be denied such eccentricity with my team
abolished, but I can live with that

Your team wouldn't be abolished.

I presume that is why you prefer your 'pigeon shed' ground at Windsor Park with its mass waving of union jacks & unionist flags, the English national anthem, no surrender chants & all looked over by the Orange Order president of the IFA?

You really should stop presuming without acknowledging what I've already said here, or based on your own prejudices. I want Windsor to be refurbed to a 20,000 modern stadium; I prefer distinct NI flags and would like a distinct anthem, not one shared with Britain as a whole, England and Liechtenstein; I've opposed the Orange Order and other organisations based on religious or other sectarian prejudice all my life. I don't take part in No Surrender chants, they're so 1980s.

Sorry about the McAleese gag, btw. We go back a long way, I remember having a row with her when I was a student and she the head of the law faculty at Dublin University

I wasn't aware that i suggested abolishing the North's team?

My apologies, you didn't. I was confusing you with another poster ('Antrim Green' at #363 above).

[The Fly]

Come on, it's hardly the elephant in the room we're not allowed to mention. I didn't claim they weren't Irish. And read back in the thread, where poster Fly claimed airily that some people (unionists, basically), WERE less Irish than others, as determined by his semi-coherent pseudo-scientific horsesh*t about quotients of Irishness and their relation to schizophrenia blah blah.

Gather Round, go back and read my posts again on the subject that you refer to above, (you didn't at the time - I wonder why). Then, simply engage your brain and understanding will follow. It's not rocket science!

[Predator]

Er...you are making use of it. You'll fill Lansdowne again as you have Croke in recent years. As an outsider and occasional visitor I'm impressed by both.

I think you know I was speaking with reference to a theoretical all Ireland football team. Would Belfast be the preferred home venue? If so, why?

I don't expect the NI team nor country to cease to exist in the foreseeable future so the question doesn't arise However, I do support the Ireland cricket team and watch it regularly. I'd prefer if it was a Northern Ireland team (as you may know, there were twice as many NI as Southern players in the squad for the 2020 World Cup last year). Admittedly the two best Irish players (from Dublin and Bray respectively) currently play for England. I don't follow rugby union at all really, so cricket's the best parallel I can offer.

Surely then, if you can support the Ireland cricket team (despite your preference for a NI team), you could support an 'Ireland' football team (theoretically speaking of course)? Would it really be that difficult?

Your team wouldn't be abolished.

How so?

Sorry about the McAleese gag, btw. We go back a long way, I remember having a row with her when I was a student and she the head of the law faculty at Dublin University

...you didn't!

[Not Brazil]

Surely then, if you can support the Ireland cricket team (despite your preference for a NI team), you could support an 'Ireland' football team (theoretically speaking of course)?

Was there ever a "Northern Ireland" cricket team?

[shakermaker1982]

Come on, it's hardly the elephant in the room we're not allowed to mention. I didn't claim they weren't Irish. And read back in the thread, where poster Fly claimed airily that some people (unionists, basically), WERE less Irish than others, as determined by his semi-coherent pseudo-scientific horsesh*t about quotients of Irishness and their relation to schizophrenia blah blah.

But enough of that; as oft-repeated above I've mentioned them mainly to illustrate the point that many on this thread have declined to answer, or maybe to grasp. You already have the chance to pick any player from Ireland or anyone else with one Irish grannny. You don't need to abolish our team to do it.

you called 3 of the players Englishmen which to me is a nice dig at second generation Irish men and I imagine would be fairly insulting to somebody like Kevin Kilbane.

I expect that you'd class Iain Dowie and Lawrie Sanchez as Northern Irish rather than a couple of English lads?

[Not Brazil]

The RoI team would be abolished along with the NI team in the event of an all-Ireland team. The chance is there to pick anyone from NI but obviously not everyone from NI would want to play for RoI, as you say. In the case of an all-Ireland team, people would only have one team to play for and the best players would be in the one team (bar Stephen Ireland of course!). Nothing political or tribal, just sport. It's that simple.

There's the rub.

Why not allow people who wish to play for Northern Ireland, the CHOICE to play for Northern Ireland?

Your FA have the CHOICE to pick players from throughout the island - why can't you afford others the CHOICE to represent Northern Ireland?