Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[ArdeeBhoy]

Peadar,
Just to acknowledge your points. Don't agree with them but will consider a wider justified response.

[Scooby Doo]

You call it 'conceding ground', I call it 'giving it up my team'. As the more reasoning RoI fans have repreatedly asked on this thread, why on Earth would I do that? It makes no sense.

Okay, frankly thats a matter of opinion. My vision for an All-Ireland team would be a sharing of stadia , pooling of resources that helps both sets of Ireland players and supporters experience major tournaments more regularly and even working together to host a major tournament (and needless to add, the benefits of an All-Ireland League). Yes its extremely idealistic but i see absolutely no problem with the NI flag and the tricolour being waved side by side, representing a one-island team. Never gonna happen though-not in the near future anyway.

[Gather round]

Okay, frankly thats a matter of opinion

All the NI supporters on this thread, as well as many of your own fans, have told you repeatedly that we aren't interested in an all-Ireland football team. All Northern Ireland fans pretty much by definition agree. If you and the other stirrers on here want to make any more of an issue of it, do it amongst yourselves.

[Predator]

Okay, fair enough. But let me ask you (and i'm not trying to wind you up), lets say that an All-Ireland team came into existence. What would your opinion be on the issue of
1. Flags and emblems
2. Anthem
3. Player selection
4. Venue

1. While I would understand the probable opposition to the Tricolour being used, I would suggest that people should remind themselves of the symbolism contained within it. Failing that, a four province flag would be an acceptable alternative.

2. Perhaps a new anthem could be written, although Ireland's Call works for the rugger heads, right? Is it you SD, that sees Ireland's Call as 'PC tripe'? If so, could you explain why? I would see no problem with being inclusive if it would mean a re-united Irish nation and football team.

3. Player selection would be as expected. Pick the best players who are available and willing to play for their country.

4. This is probably a bit out there, but perhaps we could rotate venues in each of the four provinces for friendlies and such? Belfast, Galway, Cork, Dublin? The problem would be finding or building suitable stadia. However, given that the infrastructure is already in place in Dublin, it's the obvious preference.

Where would the new 'merged' football association be based? There should be offices in each province. I'd be willing to accept these kinds of changes in favour of an all-Ireland team. Why not?

[Gather round]

I'd be willing to accept these kinds of changes in favour of an all-Ireland team. Why not?

Read the rest of the thread and stop stirring.

[Predator]

Read the rest of the thread and stop stirring.

GR I respect your points of view and I've read through the thread. Call it stirring all you want, but I encourage as much logical and reasoned discussion on this matter. My 'why not?' sentiment was more indicative of my stance on this and if you don't like that then fine, don't reply.

[ArdeeBhoy]

My 'why not?' sentiment was more indicative of my stance on this and if you don't like that then fine, don't reply.

Ha.
Yeah, you'd wonder why they do.

[Gather round]

You've had- repeated ad nauseam on the thread- a clear reply to the suggestion and implied invitation in the thread title. None of your (plural) various responses thereafter have been sufficiently logical nor reasoned to actually accept this original reply. Let me put it slightly more starkly: we ain't interested in joining your football team even if you encourage all our fans to wear berets, smoke gauloises and play the fcuking accordion to accompany the national anthems. OK?

[ArdeeBhoy]

But what if we were interested in joining yours.....



And although you seem to have embraced a 'Gallic' theme (Is that the 'Britishness' in you coming out;thought you were claiming some sort of 'Irishness) ??), surely the bowler hats, drum 'n' bass and bonfires is more your type of gesture?
No contradictions there with that kind of statement.

[Scooby Doo]

All the NI supporters on this thread, as well as many of your own fans, have told you repeatedly that we aren't interested in an all-Ireland football team. All Northern Ireland fans pretty much by definition agree. If you and the other stirrers on here want to make any more of an issue of it, do it amongst yourselves.

Hold on, this is a discussion thread. I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I have respectfully listened to your views on this. It is perfectly fair if as you say that the majority of NI fans are totally against the idea of an AI team and I accept that. My opinion is that the existence of such a team would benefit both Irelands in terms of footballing success. If there is vehement opposition to such a proposal so be it. But as mentioned this is a discussion forum where people offer opinions.

And as for 'Ireland's Call', my skin crawls when I here such a cheesy, meaningless, lyrically feeble piece of garbage being sung in place of my national anthem. Fine, if its inappropriate to sing Ámhrán na bhFiann or GSTQ, at least come up with a more accomplished alternative. No offence to your Derry compatriot Predator!

[JohnB]

Hardly a convention, certainly not nowadays anyway. The fact remains that is not the official anthem of Northern Ireland, nor is it representative of it. I live in Northern Ireland and am very contented that the IRFU do not respect the local 'convention' you speak of. Once again, if NI had it's own official/cross-community anthem that should be played.

Like it or not, so long as it remains part of the UK, GSTQ is the NA for NI. It is the equivalent of the SS. And whether or not it reflects people's views is neither here nor there. It's the anthem and should be afforded the same respect as any other anthem.

Those posters on OWC, of which I am one, I'd say are simply sensitive to a somewhat delicate situation, like myself. Most may also live in Northern Ireland JohnB. (and be fairly enlightened)

Judging by the evidence i.e. their posts, your fellow countrymen are much more pro-royal than I have been, or would ever be. And those that I know still live in the RoI(or at least did when I saw them last).

For the record - I have always had much sympathy for players and supporters from Northern Ireland at Irish rugby matche

But we shouldn't require sympathy, just a level playing field and, the IRFU have failed to provide this. This, added to the whole host of other reasons discussed on this thread demonstrate I think why NI fans would never warm to the idea of an all-Ireland team.

[JohnB]

Although it would make a great (and lengthy) discussion, I'd prefer not to get into a major sociological/historical debate at four in the morning . But i believe that the Ulster cycle is the archetypal mainstay of historical Celtic culture that the majority of Irish people today would claim allegience to and identification with. The suggestion that the concept of Ulster is representative of the portion of the population that would describe themselves as being anything but Irish is farcical imo.

United by insomnia

I don't know anyone from NI who doesn't consider themselves Irish (or Northern Irish). But your very narrow view of Irishness, based on myth, would not suit many, certainly not me. Legends are interesting, but they tell us very little about who we are in a modern context. And all this stuff about being non-native? (not your phrase Scooby). It's very odd from many persectives, not least when we analyse the movement of gaelic-speaking people into what we now call Scotland. When they returned en masse many centuries later, were they returning natives?

Personally, I prefer the mongrel view. We're a mish-mash of settlers from across the ages and actually, our political and historic perspective is based mainly on our upbringing, rather than the blood of our forefathers.

[The Fly]

Like it or not, so long as it remains part of the UK, GSTQ is the NA for NI. It is the equivalent of the SS. And whether or not it reflects people's views is neither here nor there. It's the anthem and should be afforded the same respect as any other anthem.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. It is Northern Ireland that is being represented, not the UK. It has to have it's own official, cross-community anthem. GTSQ is neither of these and I'm afraid it is 'here or there' whether it reflects/represents the people of Northern Ireland.

Judging by the evidence i.e. their posts, your fellow countrymen are much more pro-royal than I have been, or would ever be. And those that I know (or at least didn't when I saw them last) still live in the RoI.

Pro-royal ..............how so?

But we shouldn't require sympathy, just a level playing field and, the IRFU have failed to provide this. This, added to the whole host of other reasons discussed on this thread demonstrate I think why NI fans would never warm to the idea of an all-Ireland team.

The IRFU has not failed to provide it, Northern Ireland as an entity has failed to provide it by not having it's own anthem, in common with the Scot's and the Welsh.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Personally, I prefer the mongrel view. We're a mish-mash of settlers from across the ages and actually, our political and historic perspective is based mainly on our upbringing, rather than the blood of our forefathers.

Wouldn't agree entirely, but the most objective view to date emanating from the North.
But you need to share this with more than one or two of your, er, compatriots, based on previous experience and the stance of the political parties that represents the vast majority of them.

[Scooby Doo]

United by insomnia

I don't know anyone from NI who doesn't consider themselves Irish (or Northern Irish). But your very narrow view of Irishness, based on myth, would not suit many, certainly not me. Legends are interesting, but they tell us very little about who we are in a modern context. And all this stuff about being non-native? (not your phrase Scooby). It's very odd from many persectives, not least when we analyse the movement of gaelic-speaking people into what we now call Scotland. When they returned en masse many centuries later, were they returning natives?

Personally, I prefer the mongrel view. We're a mish-mash of settlers from across the ages and actually, our political and historic perspective is based mainly on our upbringing, rather than the blood of our forefathers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc34JKvCQ3Q feeling mischievous JohnB, but check out 2.45. Funny stuff!
You've got me wrong anyway I'm just saying that the great mythology of Ulster is one of the more important cornerstones of Irish/Gaelic identity and to see the concept of Ulster usurped by staunch unionism annoys me - rightly or wrongly.
(one example)
But it is only one part of Irish identity, i admit, as important as it is.

[The Fly]

^ sweet Jesus! That's wrong and funny on so many levels.

Oh! while on the subject of murals, apparently one of Thierry Henry is going up on the Shankill Road.

[Scooby Doo]

^ sweet Jesus! That's wrong and funny on so many levels.

Oh! while on the subject of murals, apparently one of Thierry Henry is going up on the Shankill Road.

That is the most pathetic, juvenile thing i've heard in a long time. NI never ceases to amaze me.

[The Fly]

That is the most pathetic, juvenile thing i've heard in a long time. NI never ceases to amaze me.

Prepare to be amazed a bit more Scooby!
It's reported that the mural, which has just been started, will depict Henry with a red-hand, as in the Red-Hand of Ulster, and sporting a Glasgow Rangers top.

Note - this is what is being reported, so don't quote me on it. We'll just have to wait for it to be finished for confirmation, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is indeed true. Oh well!

[stiffler]

Prepare to be amazed a bit more Scooby!
It's reported that the mural, which has just been started, will depict Henry with a red-hand, as in the Red-Hand of Ulster, and sporting a Glasgow Rangers top.

Note - this is what is being reported, so don't quote me on it. We'll just have to wait for it to be finished for confirmation, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is indeed true. Oh well!

Have you a link for this?! I hope its a wind up!!

[Not Brazil]

But it's your lot NG's & the BNP are appealing to....Have you not noticed their name or colour scheme??

And in Ireland, no-one's trying to force unionists out, just not wanting them to enforce an aggressive, triumphalist 'Britishness' (Thought you were previously 'Irish'??) on the Native Irish.

They'll never appeal to me - of that I can assure you.

Can you please get your head around the fact that I am British and Irish?

Will you accept the democratically expessed wishes of the vast majority of people in your jurisdiction that uphold, and respect, my right to be both?

I seek in no way to assert my "Britishness" agressively, or triumphiantly, upon anyone.

I am "native" to the island of Ireland....born and bred, like generations of my family before me.

I'm not going away.

I can also assure you the nobody will be asserting their narrow, myopic, view of "Irishness" upon me.