Quote1.Four Provinces flag.Originally Posted by Scooby Doo
2.'A Nation Once Again'
3.Anyone who's eligible! Or available. So not S.Ireland!
4. Beal-feirste if they build a stadium, or Belleek, Clones or wherever. More realistically, Newry or Derry??
OK, purely hypothetically
1. A green flag with just the shamrock emblem would be OK
2. I've no problem with Ireland's call
3. Has to be meritocratic based on who's available and not rushing off to play for England instead
4. Belfast, Dublin and Derry are all fine.
1.Four Provinces flag.
2.'A Nation Once Again'
3.Anyone who's eligible! Or available. So not S.Ireland!
4. Beal-feirste if they build a stadium, or Belleek, Clones or wherever. More realistically, Newry or Derry??
I'd love to see an all-Ireland league. I think the addition of the Belfast teams in particular would be of great benefit to football on this island. Higher competition, new, fresh rivalries, and the whole "feel-good factor" of cross-border cooperation would be a breath of fresh air for the league.
However, I don't think it's the mystical "silver bullet", and I definitely don't think that we should have a united Irish football team. All that is going to achieve is to give the bigots south of the border a sense of vindication, and greatly **** off a sizeable proportion of people to the north of it.
Like it or not, (and I strongly disagree with their political views), the Unionists have been in Ireland longer than the US has been colonised by English speakers, and they will be here for a long time to come. We're going to have to live in peace with them, and taking away their football team because of nationalistic fervour isn't exactly the best way of going about that.
Hold on a second mate, I'm not trying to wind-up anybody here. I'm just puzzled as to why, if you say you are a proud Irishman, you would be against the creation of a team that represents all of those that are proud to be Irish. The only exclusion i'm making is of those who fiercly denounce their Irishness. Never would i claim that those who consider themselves in some way Irish are not just that. And to clarify I have strong ties to Ulster and am proud of what I believe it should represent. But as I said to see the concept of it appropriated by insular unionism is frustrating.
Btw, edit my last post. It should have read 'only second to that of ancient Greece in a European context'. Sloppiness on my part.
There are already two such teams, so need to create another whose most obvious effect would be replace the other two. I'm amazed that you can't grasp this.
Hardly anyone does, certainly not any Northern Ireland fan. The clue's in the name.The only exclusion i'm making is of those who fiercly denounce their Irishness
Except they're only there because their ancestors were transplanted there. What about the views of the indigeneous people? Be it in Ulaidh or wherever else in the world.
Accepting the current situation is fair enough, but it means it vindicates an historically illegal colonial occupation and Orange triumphalism and has at times greatly p*ssed off a number of people to the south of it !
Still, suppose we could turn a 'blind eye' to the excesses that have maintained this.
So tricolour ditched altogether? I have a problem with Ireland's call. Ridiculous piece of PC tripe. Decent alternative would have to be found. It would be a tough one personally to dump Ámahrán na bhFiann. Venues you mentioned would be fine but you'd have to concede that the principle venue would have to be in Dublin given the respective populations both sides of the border.
That's like something taken from the BNP school if thinking.
I was born and bred in Belfast, in Northern Ireland, on the island of Ireland. I am proud of that. I am a British Citizen, and proud of that too.
I am (Northern) Irish and British...I do not view these as mutually exclusive.
When you demean any part of that, you demean all of me.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 22/11/2009 at 11:42 AM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Of course they are. Colonialism is disgusting and morally unacceptable. However, do you propose we start to essentially repress the culture and traditions of the majority of people who live in the USA and Northern Ireland in the present day just because their ancestors from 400 years ago happened to be imperialist warmongers?Except they're only there because their ancestors were transplanted there. What about the views of the indigeneous people? Be it in Ulaidh or wherever else in the world.
Accepting the current situation is fair enough, but it means it vindicates an historically illegal colonial occupation and Orange triumphalism and has at times greatly p*ssed off a number of people to the south of it !
Still, suppose we could turn a 'blind eye' to the excesses that have maintained this.
I'm happy enough with the current situation, whereby Republicans in the North can choose to play for the Republic, but Unionists can make the choice to play for a side that reflects their own political views.
Although I would like to see the people of the predominantly nationalist counties north of the border to be given the chance to democratically join the Republic if they so wish.
Heh, I think you may have musunderstood an admittedly weak gag. Try re-reading it as Stormont, Clontarf and Eglinton. The first named is clearly the principal venue, even if you don't like it in principle
Fine, don't drop it. Keep supporting your team and leave us ours.It would be a tough one personally to dump Ámahrán na bhFiann
Last edited by Gather round; 22/11/2009 at 11:48 AM.
Okay, sorry i'm just influenced by the hardline pro-British, anti-Irish approaches adopted by the majority of political figures that represent the Unionist population - who make up the majority of the NI supporter population.
You support re-partition, as a final settlement to our age old dispute?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Only because the unionists until recently have made extremely limited efforts to integrate with the native Irish. Have no objections to them being there, but their behaviour towards Irish people has hardly being impeccable....and in reality they're not remotely interested in being branded 'Irish' or they would have accepted the end of British rule decades ago.
And ended their obsession with every warped British symbol going....
[QUOTE=Gather round;1280055]Heh, I think you may have musunderstood an admittedly weak gag. Try re-reading it as Stormont, Clontarf and Eglinton. The first named is clearly the principal venue, even if you don't like it in principle
Touché Gather. Not at my best this morning.
Well the native Indians and Irish should both seek substantial damages from the numerous parties who were happy to conduct genocide on their peoples, but given that's the present US, German, French, Spanish, Dutch and Brit. governments I'm sure double standardswill definitely apply.
And yer right. At the very least, the border is a farce and any occupied territory should be restricted to 1-2 counties max. Though you wouldn't want to be an Irish Catholic in that particular theme park....
I'm glad you've no objections to me being here (even though I've been here since birth, as have my family for generations), but that's still the stuff of Nick Griffen.
I should have said earlier, that, when you demean any part of me, you will not "unite" me.
I don't have an "obsession" with being British - I AM a British Citizen - proudly, unrepentantly, and unapologetically. Not to **** you off, I hasten to add...it's simply what I am.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 22/11/2009 at 11:59 AM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Fine, don't drop it. Keep supporting your team and leave us ours.[/QUOTE]
Happy to oblige. Honestly don't think it would work. Football stirs passions in a way rugby cannot. Would be more trouble than its worth.
Can't speak for them, or even analyse their lives in much detail before about 125-150 years ago, but I'd hazard a guess most of them were dirt-poor and forced to move by economic/ social pressure. So pretty much the opposite, really.
A further partition is theoretically possible. There's a running gag about this on the Slugger O'Toole site; Derry and Newry might well vote 85-90% for joining, while at the same time Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway might choose to reject them. So you'd be left with a partition into threeAlthough I would like to see the people of the predominantly nationalist counties north of the border to be given the chance to democratically join the Republic if they so wish
You call it 'conceding ground', I call it 'giving it up my team'. As the more reasoning RoI fans have repreatedly asked on this thread, why on Earth would I do that? It makes no sense.
Last edited by Gather round; 22/11/2009 at 12:05 PM.
But it's your lot NG's & the BNP are appealing to
And in Ireland, no-one's trying to force unionists out, just not wanting them to enforce an aggressive, triumphalist 'Britishness' (Thought you were previously 'Irish'??) on the Native Irish.
I support democracy. I support the right of the predominantly Unionist communities to remain a part of the UK by democratic consensus as well, and if, say, Fermanagh, decided, to remain part of Northern Ireland in a democratic vote, I would happily accept their decision. But this isn't really the place or time to discuss it.
I disagree. Nobody in the current standing governments were involved in the genocides of the colonial era, and none of the taxpayers who would foot the bill were either. I would settle for an end to organised state oppression, and equal opportunities, which both countries are moving swiftly towards (although I doubt the US, with its horrendously deep poverty trap, will ever see true equality, but that is a completely different discussion).Well the native Indians and Irish should both seek substantial damages from the numerous parties who were happy to conduct genocide on their peoples, but given that's the present US, German, French, Spanish, Dutch and Brit. governments I'm sure double standards
Again, I disagree. The current Northern Irish administration has shown a committment to equal rights and the end of discrimination against the nationalist community. I see no reason to think that would change, and state-sanctioned discrimination would resume should the North shrink from six counties to three.
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