France V Ireland - Wednesday, 18th November 2009 - World Cup 2010 Playoff Second Leg

[markmc]

Front page of Le Figaro is about Henry, with a small piece on the new EU president. It's big news in France not just Ireland.

Even the yanks are looking at it.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/?eref=sinav

[Closed Account 2]

Just got back from Paris, and what can you say after such a crushing blow... I was too far away to really see what went on at the time in precise detail (goal was at the far end to where I was standing). But you could tell that a huge contraversy had occured. Given was incandescant and 2-3 other players were speaking to the ref. Then they went to the linesman (who you have to say really should have seen it) - and the ref was next to the linesman for what seemed like an age. There was obviously a huge doubt in the ref's mind, we all know that video evidence was used in the world cup final (and seemingly at the confederations cup) but not last night...

It's horrible to go out in such fashion and as a fan its very upsetting - I can't even imagine what the players are thinking now, no player can expect to go to more than 5 world cups (even if he's Brazilian) and who knows when these ones will get another chance.

We can look back at the campaign with immense pride, and our players have grown tremendously as individuals and as a team over the last 2 years. Ones like St. Ledger, Andrews and Whelan have been brilliant despite hardly featuring before the qualifiers. We've not been outclassed by any team in qualification and last night we finally managed to beat a big team away from home (over the 90 mins). I would say no team would want to draw us as third seeds (assuming we are) in the Euro Qualification. None of this seems to really matter at the moment, but we should all acknowledge the efforts of the manager and players... fair play to them for throwing their shirts to the fans at the end and coming over to us, they must have been feeling sick with the injustice. I think Trap is only around for the next campaign (Euro2012) I hope he can be persuaded to have another crack at the World Cup in 2014 - I know he has family commitments but I think he must feel there is also unfinished business ahead.

Last night was what we all feared back in September when they said the playoffs would be seeded, some dubious botched decision favouring a big side. It probably wasnt a conspiracy, but it's just another case of a small country being bullied by a combination of big reputations/countries and bloated hierarchical organisations (FIFA / UEFA / Swiss-based federations etc). I dont think there will be replay and I dont really know if there should be one - I do wish the Lisbon vote was now so we could all vote no just to stick it to them*

* I know the world cup has little to do with political integration and FIFA / UEFA and the EU are not the same, but at this heated irrational moment I feel they're all similar.

I'll leave this as the last word:

"You have to be fair in football - you have to be honest and well done to you if you've won, but you have to win in a good way."



T. Henry, Stade de France, Arsenal 1 - 2 Barcelona, 16-05-2006.

[LeBleu]

Ah, the French. Watched the game in an Irish pub in France, where I,m a long term resident. On the way there the streets were filled with cars blaring their horns in premature celebration and I thought it not at all surprising. Turns out it was Algerian supporters after their game -- the French don't get that passionate.

The outcome was inevitable. But the reaction of the French around me was the most galling (pun intended). No leaping around, no pouring out onto the streets. Just a momentary hubbub.

Vous pouvez confirmier le meme chose chez vous, Le Bleu, Giuly et autres?

First I thought it was just the usual emotional constipation. But, after reading the views on a few French forums, I wonder was it shame. The reaction in the wider community has actually stunned me. It's provoked one of those crises of confidence and identity the French specialise in. They really don't like being the object of the world's opprobrium - imagined or otherwise. The intellectuals have jumped all over it but even the punters are very unhappy with events, and nothing but kudos for the Irish team.

So a replay after a bout of national soul-searching? Just maybe, but probably not.

French PM Francois Fillon would appear to have put the kaibosh on Cowen's clumsy overtures at the EU summit, saying the Irish government should stay out of football.

Ah the French, at least they can't patronise me this time.

2 years very difficult for a french supporter. Lots of match "de merde" with a stupid and pretentious coach surrounded by lazy players who don't arrive to remove their finger out of their arse (french expression).

I wished a big game with passion and sweat. I saw dancers against warriors. I wanted a reason to be proud.

I was for france, but at the 103 min with this shameful goal,with this indecent joy on the field. I couldn't, I wanted see Ireland scores and kick the arse of those usurpers.

I'm angry against frenchteam (except Evra & Lloris) and french federation.

My feeling is largely shared in france.

And "the cherry on the cake" we continue with the same staff in South Africa.

Pauvre football.

[Closed Account 2]

2 years very difficult for a french supporter. Lots of match "de merde" with a stupid and pretentious coach surrounded by lazy players who don't arrive to remove their finger out of their arse (french expression).

I wished a big game with passion and sweat. I saw dancers against warriors. I wanted a reason to be proud.

I was for france, but at the 103 min with this shameful goal,with this indecent joy on the field. I couldn't, I wanted see Ireland scores and kick the arse of those usurpers.

I'm angry against frenchteam (except Evra & Lloris) and french federation.

My feeling is largely shared in france.

And "the cherry on the cake" we continue with the same staff in South Africa.

Pauvre football.

Actually lots of French people said this on the metro on the way back. One of the stewards was so embarresed he gave the match ball (or one of the ones on the sidelines) to a little kid in an Ireland shirt a few rows in front of me.

[IsMiseSean]

Dear all,
I am proud to write my first message on this thread.
Let me introduce myself, I am a french guy.
And definitely, what I've seen yesterday was a great game !
A great game from Ireland !

Fair play buddy. If it was one of the Ireland players that won the game this way, i'd be happy for the game to be replayed.
Its a shame the French FA dont feel the same....

[IsMiseSean]

And you have one damn good keeper in Lloris

[Crosby87]

IS there any chance the game would be replayed? Im guessing no, but I ask anyway.

[SkStu]

Lloris is an excellent keeper - agreed. Some super saves and confident and in control of his area.

[jebus]

bit of perspective on the way Ireland came across in the past 24 hours for ye lads

[Jicked]

Just home and don't really know what to say. Those who were there probably won't forget the look us fans have been giving each other on metros and streets around paris, a shrug of the shoulders and a look of bewilderment. It sounds so hyperbolic but it really is a similar thing to how ppl act after a death. Ridiculous i know.

Thank you so much to mr trapattoni for building a great team from scratch, and to the brave players who i feel awful for. I couldn't possibly go through each player who has been magnificent during this campaign, but robbie for me has just been unreal this campaign. A captain we can be so proud of. My heart broke for shay when he came over to us at the end pointing to his arm and then gesturing No.

Les bleus and france should be ashamed of henry. Most seem to be. After the game the fans i talked to were mocking us, smugly saying that these things happen in football and it was our own fault for not finishing them off earlier. Today after everyone saw replays and how obvious and embarassing the cheating was the attitude changed, literally a dozen times i was approached by french men, women and children apologising and talking at length about how bad they felt.

F+ck henry and f+ck FIFA

[SkStu]

bit of perspective on the way Ireland came across in the past 24 hours for ye lads

thats actually brilliant

[strangeirish]

Even the yanks are looking at it.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/?eref=sinav

Interesting interview with Trap on the same site, before the game.

[Kingdom]

I'm not too embarrassed to say I cried a little last night. I'm 28 yrs old and have only known good times supporting Ireland. In the 20yrs following Ireland teams home and abroad, last night was both the zenith and the nadir in terms of performance, emotion, quality and pride.
For the kids of JPII this was our Brussels, this was our Goodison Park, this was.....a resurrection.

Last night was as glorious as it was horrible. I've only got to page 24 and the emotion is too much. Unfortunately this match isn't as black and white as the handball. It just isn't. There are many aspects to this tie. I'll leave extra-time aside as its clearly a controversial topic.
We won our first significant away game in 22 years, a fact that I hope doesn't get lost amid all the hysteria. For all those who had that ticket (stojkovic you've got mine) for the Stade de France: treasure it, as its the first time in a generation that any Irish team has beaten a genuinely world class team with some of the greatest players of the day, away from home, in a match of significance. Not only did we beat them, I think its fair to say we humiliated this France team. All that arrogance after Sat night, all the postuering and posing, was shoved down the throats of 65/70k French supporters with change over for 14 Frenchmen on the pitch. Harried, hustled, battered, beaten, defeated and outfought over the 90 mins, we were fortunate to watch 14 of our own warriors on the same field, doing every last one of us proud.
Discussing the game with a friend leaving Croker on Sat, I ruefully commented on how apt it was that this group of players, having never achieved a result as momentous as previous generations of players have (France81, England 88, Holland 2001), would leave Croker having never achieved a win when it came to the crunch (Ger, Bul, Ita, Fra) and were left with one final chance to imbed themselves into the memories, ironically enough, that one chance being perhaps the toughest prospect ever faced by an Irish team. And they achieved it - they gave us that memory - and they should never be forgotten for it.

If you look at the tie over the two 90 min games, we totally outplayed France in 3 of the 4 45min quarters. And unfortunately the one quarter we didn't ended up being our downfall.
Every player that started the game upped their performance than the previous game. Our luck has deserted us. When was the last time two of our players had to withdraw early in a game with injury? When have we missed genuine one on one chances as last night?
Our back 4 were committed without being foolhardy - Kevin Kilbane played like a man determined no to end 102 caps on a sour note. He didn't. His enthusiasm, his desire, his passion for his country, shone through like it always has, but his football improved immensely last night, and his pass that led to the goal was a thing of beauty.
Keith Andrews, maligned so often here, challenged to a duel by Makalele #2, met the challenge and was victor by a country mile. The boy was immense, collassal, he was everywhere battling for possession, and if he never plays another game of football for Ireland again, then he can walk tall. Whelan again had an evening cut short, again where he did the simple things well, and the subtlety of his play makes me wonder do the people who proclaim to follow football, actually know anything about the game.
Our wing men were magic, offering protection to our full backs, an outlet for our middle men and being a constant menace for the French back 4, playing killer passes, bisecting french blockades, using mental fortitude to gain time by killing the ball dead (I can vividly recall the deft incuts by Liam Lawrence to evade Evra and Diarra challenges whilst setting up the runner through the middle. 4/5 of these instances I can see).
Lastly Doyler and Keano. For Doyler all I can see is John Aldridge circa 1986-1989 while Robbie Keane has improved his all round play for his country in this campaign, that his contribution should be above question. Many did question his leadership ability, well, he has answered those questions, he has become a leader.

Of the management, I believe they proved themselves over the two games. They got the tactics right in both games I feel; as I said the one quarter where we were beaten, the management could do little about. The tactics the other night were so so so right, and unfortunately we have "experts" making out as if the players decided upon this course of action themselves. Pathetic.

This is where Saipan, its reminants and fall outs can be consigned to history, and where we as a set of supporters, and they as a group of players can move forward again. I think the supporters took a long hard look at themselves early in this campaign (certainly after the Poles handed us our behinds on a plate) and set out giving unconditional support to the boys in green. And they responded every time. When our support dipped, so did the performance on the pitch, every time. Montenegro is the prime example.

So where to now? All is not perfect, of course its not, if it was we would be going to South Africa. Now that the campaign is over, a real honest appraisal has to be instigated by the management. What areas of the squad can be improved upon? I don't believe there will be any retirements, I think the emotions we saw last night, were just that, the grief that so many of us felt. Remember these players are Irish fans too.
There are definitely players who aren't up to the standard - one came on I'm afraid, Mr McShane is not International standard, and it definitely was a failing that we didn't have a better alternative that the management could trust.
The potential suitors to the squad need to set about seeking first team football. The squad doesn't need decimating, its needs replenishing.

We've 9 months to the start of the Euro qualifiers.
Brian Murphy and Kieron Westwood need game time. Shay Given NEEDS to be put in his place in this regard. He is first choice but for the sake of ego pandering we can't afford to have an untested reserve if he gets injured. We need to develop both full back positions. In this regard Eddie Nolan needs game time as should Damien Delaney in the face of no other real alternatives.
Personally I think JOSH and Dunney should still be our #1 centre half pairing (while we've been comfortable, I don't think we've been as assured with Sledge there), however in the absence of other options at right full (Seamus Coleman perhaps could be co-opted into the squad) given that Foley seems to have fallen out of favour at Wolves and Kelly is a backup at Fulham, then O'Shea reverts to right back meaning we're still shy of a reliable backup at centre half. The only people I can think of is Darren O'Dea now that he's getting game time at Reading.

Midfield I genuinely think we're sorted for. Andrews, Whelan and Stephen Reid are grand, the rift with Andy Reid needs to be mended now, and with plenty of time before the new campaign, and he needs to be given a chance. Fahey, McCann (when he's recovered) and Gibson are adequate backup, but can only be with friendly game time.
No need to speak about the flanks as we have options.

Up front its a case of what to do. Robbie is a given, Doyler we won't find anything new at this stage, so what of the support cast? Best is unrefined, Folan looks a prospect but thats all it remains to be, Noel Hunt is a poacher who doesn't fit the system I believe, while Shane Long also seems to have stagnated. Andy Keogh will have a big say in years to come if he's played in his correct position (as the #10) but Robbie is Robbie and Andy shall have to wait his turn.
For every friendly I'd love to see a B Squad announced so that our fringe players can begin to prove themselves.

Someone earlier mentioned that now the campaign was over Trap would go about revolutionising the team, the squad and the way it plays. I believe this too. We've bought into this team, now we need to believe it can flourish.
Someone also said the team that took the pitch were boys. This is a very very accurate portrayal I feel. The thing about Charlton's team(s) was that yes the leash was long, but that was because he was dealing with men, men of a different time, and that constast those teams with the current and its very much a case of men vs boys. Well that perception has very much been turned on its head. Last night 11 Irish men stared down a challenge from some of the worlds best and sent them to a place they were afraid to go. To the bottom of the soul.
The future's healthy, the future's green, don't be afraid to buy into it.
Éire abú.

[Marked Man]

Btw, for all the "Henry's always been a class act until now" contingent, may I just say: me******:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZE7...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym-Hy...eature=related

[endabob1]

Kingdom, that's a top post.

[bgille]

And then, your opinion about this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9fx4ipF4Q
did Ireland said to the referee "no there was no penalty"?

[OwlsFan]

We won our first significant away game in 22 years, a fact that I hope doesn't get lost amid all the hysteria.

Does anyone know whether this is correct. I have a feeling it goes in to the record books as 1-1.

We should have won it (the tie) in 90. The French were hopeless. We were excellent and we missed at least one gilt edged chance. I always felt we were going to pay as a result of that. I was in the rain swept Brussels Stadium when we were robbed years ago. I have seen all the dodgy decisions go against us over the years. Unlike my usual self, I had been optimistic about this game and I was proven right until Damien missed his chance. THAT was the crucial moment of the game. We were through, the French were out if we had taken that. After that I knew the best we'd get was penos, the worst a late French goal (I didn't think it would be a handball or offside etc though).

Yet another heart break. The usual scene of the players coming over to us and we applaud them and they applaud us. This alas is what following Ireland is about. The heartache doesn't go away. Fans crying, outrageous decisions but at the end of the day if you don't take your chances, you're in the hands of a late opposition goal, referee decision or the lottery of penos.

Time to move on to the next heartbreak. That's what supporting a team is all about. The joyeous moment of the Keane goal and the despair of the referee's final whistle. It's like an addictive drug.

[pineapple stu]

46 seconds in.

Going to petition the FAI to have the game replayed.

[macdermesser]

Not sure if this point has been made already .. but if it had been Stan in charge .. I could have envisaged him telling the players to walk off the pitch after the goal stood.

What happened next?

Game abandoned ... replay? Not sure of the rules. Would have been interesting.

[Stuttgart88]

And you have one damn good keeper in Lloris

Star in the making, no doubt.