Team For Wednesday

[Leeside Swagger]

Is that your guess?

Yup it sure lead to a 5-0 drilling in Bari alright, whereas keeping it tight lead to what against the French in Dublin?

It's just madness to persist with a failed attacking formation.

Ahem, 10 men.

[Emmet7]

My last post on this thread because clearly people are getting upset at having the attacking status quo of the Irish team questioned, a failed attacking status quo I might add that has delivered not a single goal nor worthwhile scorable chance against the 4 biggest opponents, Italy, Bulgaria, Montenego and France.

The most effective attacking system of the whole campaign was in Bari with Folan and Doyle up front and Keane following up. Everything else has not worked including the Doyle-Keane partnership. We persist with that, it's game over before it's began. I'd love it not to be the case, but we go with Keane-Doyle up front it will be the same as in Croker, and I will hate to be the one to tell everyone "I told you so".

[antrimgreen]

We only scored once in Bari and although we had a few more chances we only scored once v 10 men and a 1-1 draw against france is no use.

Each to their own i suppose, i just hope we play like our lives depend on it cause we will need to.

[paul_oshea]

Emmet are you welondinho in disguise?with a bit more time on his hands.

You have failed to respond to my point about what france would do to us. YOu are not responding to direct questions about the flip side of what you are suggesting. Its easy to go off meandering on about your point and saying you are upsetting ppl, the only time you are upsetting people is by not responding to direct questions, the flaws in your suggestions.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The most effective attacking system of the whole campaign was in Bari with Folan and Doyle up front and Keane following up .

Folan is injured and Italy were down to ten men for the entire night.

Is that your guess?

Yup it sure lead to a 5-0 drilling in Bari alright, whereas keeping it tight lead to what against the French in Dublin?.

...a deflected goal off Sledges hole. If we'd won in similar circumstances we'd not hear the end of how poxy we are.

We're still in the tie ...and I don't agree with whoever said the tie is over if France score. If Wednesdays game climbs to 1-1 at any stage in any order it's France who are in the greater peril.

[mark12345]

Lads, it's fairly obvious from the many posts on this subject that all of us agree we don't have the players and are generally not good enough to compete with France.

History has an awful lot to teach us. Anyone remember when we used compete with France in WC and ENC qualifiers back in the 70's and 80's. We were all blood and thunder back then with the likes of Michael Robinson, Mickey Walsh etc. We did manage to beat them twice in Dublin, but France went on to World Cup semi-finals, Euro Nations winners success and generally reaped what they sewed through good sensible constructive football.

Meanwhile we were back home watching on telly and planning for next season when we were going to 'get stuck in' 'graft' 'work hard' and 'put them under pressure'.

It's 25 years on and although we tend to want to do a bit more constructively with the ball, we are still playing the same old way, (look at the long balls on Saturday that were played up to Keane and Duff who were surrounded by groups of defenders).

Keane and Duff are the only players born in Ireland in the present team who can actually hold the ball, take on a player, and make something happen in the opposition half (spare the comments on Duff being this or that for Newcastle - the point is he has shown genuine quality during his career).

We need to start looking at our coaching system. Where are the next Keane or Duff coming from? What are our coaches teaching our kids. What is your kid being taught by his coach?I was part of the Shelbourne and Home Farm teams back in the 80's. It was all 'up and at them' football, and as far as I can see nothing much has changed (moved abroad and came up against different styles which really opened my eyes). I do concede that the FAI have put a brave new plan in place, but is it showing any signs in the right direction?

While we did well in bringing in a foreign manager we need to do two things (a) bring in some foreign coaches, preferably from S. America to start teaching our kids the finer points of ball retention, technical skills (b) we need to begin club partnerships - like Man United's with Standard Liege - so we can send our kids to continental clubs, ie. places other than England where technical football is a dirty word. Admittedly item (b) may take some time to get off the ground.

Countries like Holland, Turkey, Switzerland (with their newly crowned U-17 world champions) and indeed France, have changed failed systems and reaped the rewards.

If we don't change now, we'll be cursing more Irish losses to countries like France in another 25 years.

[Kingdom]

Schoolboy football needs to change. CHerry Orchard, Belvedere, Stella Maris, Joey's, Lourdes, harvesting the best of Dublin and the countryside and not having a proper Senior side to integrate these players into is a bloody shambles.

The sooner the League of Ireland, and specifically the Dublin clubs start making inroads into schoolboy soccer, and forcing the "academies" to upgrade the better. At least then the majority of our young footballing talent can stay in this country rather than being washed up across the water at 20. The very best will always go.

[third policeman]

Keane and Duff are the only players born in Ireland in the present team who can actually hold the ball, take on a player, and make something happen in the opposition half .

You could add Reid, Doyle and dare I say Stephen Ireland to that list not to mention the Scot's born McGeady. Fact is that we do have a core of technically gifted attacking midfield / forward players who could play in a different way under a different coach. I thought we were embarassing on Saturday. I watched the NI v Serbia game and there is no doubt that NI played more football than we did. Not even under Charlton have we played such depressing, ugly and utilitarian football as we do under Trapp. You cannot even take refuge in the "well it works" argument. We came second in a very poor group and struggled to grind out against the likes of Georgia and Montenegro. I fear we will lose on Wednesday by two or more goals, and it will only be France's desire to conserve energy and effort that will save us from worse humiliation. Sorry to be negative but we have been shockingly limited in this campaign and please spare me the comparisons with Stan. If you want a valid comparison, remember how we played under Mick with a similar quality squad.

[Wolfie]

Not even under Charlton have we played such depressing, ugly and utilitarian football as we do under Trapp. You cannot even take refuge in the "well it works" argument. We came second in a very poor group and struggled to grind out against the likes of Georgia and Montenegro. I fear we will lose on Wednesday by two or more goals, and it will only be France's desire to conserve energy and effort that will save us from worse humiliation. Sorry to be negative but we have been shockingly limited in this campaign and please spare me the comparisons with Stan. If you want a valid comparison, remember how we played under Mick with a similar quality squad.

I wouldn't despair to that extent, thirdpoliceman.

Trapp inherited a basket case of an International Team. We can't lose sight of the fact that the Ireland Team was in a pitiful state - moral, leadership, guidance, organisation was completely lacking.

I feared we had plummetted so low that we would never retain a semblance of where we had been in the past.

We have to view this campaign as the resurrection. Not the finished article but something we will hopefully be building upon with subtle variations in tactics appearing the more we develop. This change may be slow and may not happen as rapidly as we all want, but this is work in progress.

That's why Trapp has requested to prolong his involvement with the squad. I'm sure he feels this is a job only half done.

[Fixer82]

The most effective attacking system of the whole campaign was in Bari with Folan and Doyle up front and Keane following up. Everything else has not worked including the Doyle-Keane partnership. We persist with that, it's game over before it's began. I'd love it not to be the case, but we go with Keane-Doyle up front it will be the same as in Croker, and I will hate to be the one to tell everyone "I told you so".

I must agree as miuch as I like Keane and Doyle individually they've never struck up a partnership at all. The system worked very well against Italy with keane sitting behind the two strikers. Then again we were playing against 10 men and had that luxury.
Somehow though I don't think Best is as threatening as Folan....

Andy Reid anyone?

[seanfhear]

I must agree as miuch as I like Keane and Doyle individually they've never struck up a partnership at all. The system worked very well against Italy with keane sitting behind the two strikers. Then again we were playing against 10 men and had that luxury.
Somehow though I don't think Best is as threatening as Folan....

Andy Reid anyone?

We could have done with Folan for this match. He would cause this French backline a lot of anxiety for the last 25 minutes if we needed a goal

[dan o d]

lads if we need acouple of goals in the last 20 mins id take off lawrence for hunt and throw best on for kilbane and switch to a 3 -4-3 and just pump up the long balls

[thepiedpiper]

Same starting lineup anyway according to TV3.

[keenanboy]

Can't see him making a single change until maybe its too late.
I hate to say it but I keep having this vision of us taking an early lead only for it to be wiped out late in the game with no time left to come back.

I predict a 1-1 draw, lots of pride, lost of passion, effort etc, but no World Cup. God I'm sick of moral victories!

Hope I'm wrong

[weldoninhio]

[QUOTE=paul_oshea;1274969]Emmet are you welondinho in disguise?with a bit more time on his hands.
QUOTE]


I might dislike Irelands style of play and our current manager, but i try not to contradict myself.

Trap however has never had to rely on being a studio pundit to earn his crust, such is the high demand he has been in. He has spent his whole career at the coalface and standing on the side line making real decisions, not fantascising in a studio.

Trap comes in and imposes strict discipline and now we have the same Dunphy outraged that a player has become a victim of that strict discipline, although must suspect it's because Reid doesn't fit into Trap's football plans. So what do we want? Do we want a return to the shambles of old with no discipline or cohesion. Or do we want discipline and cohesion?

The Doyle-Keane partnership is not working well, it's been a complete and utter failure. It has not delivered one solid concrete scoring chance from open play in our 7 biggest games and they don't get much bigger or tougher than France in Paris.

Only incredibily poor managers of the kind who end their days as football pundits would persist with something that is clearly failing

You also have numerous posts stating that Ireland with A. Reid would be overrun in midfield etc. How do you plan to facilitate Keane in the pocket, with Best and Doyle up front and still have a defensive midfield?? Or maybe i'm just not seeing something since i'm not you and henceforth know nothing about football

[SkStu]

only just recovered from my despondency on Saturday to post here.

We were terrible, unlucky to concede the goal for sure, but generally we were awful.

If people believe that this is the best way that 22 irish players can play the game then i do despair. We give the ball away with terrible passing from midfield and we create next to nothing from open play.

I live in hope and i wish this team and manager the best but only because im an Irishman and an Irish fan and would love to see us at SA but playing the way we have been with this long ball, by pass midfield crap we really do not deserve to be there.

Won 4, drew 6 and lost the second most important one. We have a tiny chance of progressing.

[Predator]

With our current squad, I'll say we should go for the same starting lineup as Saturday. I honestly think we were disciplined and dangerous in the first half (unless I was suffering from dizziness in Hogan Upper?). The reason I'd keep Lawrence in ahead of McGeady is because he appears to be reliable. He's a good passer and covers well enough defensively, not to mention his dead-ball delivery is pretty good. McGeady hasn't been impressing me at all recently. I'd definitely have him feature though, as long as he keeps the ball, runs at men as the opposition tires and gets his shots on target!

[Paddy Garcia]

Best & Hunt were woeful when they came on - we need some alternative options than these two on the bench anyway.

[geysir]

And in other games, at least Hunt has made a serious impact.
There are a lot of circumstances which can affect a sub making an impact.

[irishfan86]

A lot of people have said he was useless, but they forget the impact he made when he came on against Italy.

Hunt has his limitations, but let's not judge him on a 10 minute cameo- he can be very effective in certain situations.