Cork City were 3-0 up against Hibs in 2005 with fringe players eg. 5 first team players made 8 subs weakening the team further where were finished 3-3 but we won on Penalties. But we have gone backwards since thenOriginally Posted by Buller
west cork district league
west cork commandos
I considered that when I posted, but chose to do so anyway. On the basis that they're all inter-linked.
Attendances may be linked to facilities, but there's a bigger causal link between facilities and atendances in-reverse, for example.
This is all so selective. You could find plenty of example of LOI teams performing poorly against LSL teams in pre season friendlies, but no one is saying that means the LSL is as good as the LOI Premier.
I just had a look at the Hibs and Hearts squads on Wikipedia out if interest. To be honest, I don't know much about most of their players, but that really doesn't mean anything. I'm only familiar with most LOI players because I follow an LOI club, it's not as if any of them are household names. One thing did strike me though - Hibs have Liam Miller and Anthony Stokes, both of whom are a cut above anyone in the LOI IMO. If that's an indication of the type of players that Hibs have in their squad, then sorry, but they're on a completely different level to the LOI (which is what you would expect, given they have a much bigger budget).
For those who just dismiss the gap in attendances as if it's trivial - here's a question: how much difference would it make to the standard in the LOI if the biggest clubs had attendances like Hibs and Hearts (say 12-15,000) and the smallest clubs had attendances like say Hamilton (say 3-4,000)?
I think it would completely transform the LOI and the standard would increase hugely. If you agree with that, then surely you have to agree that clubs who already have those sorts of attendances are likely to be a level above what the LOI is at currently? If you don't agree that increasing attendances to SPL levels (excl Old Firm) would hugely improve the LOI, then I'd love to hear why.
because i love the LOI! which in my mind makes it a better league than the SPL and none of your fancy rational thinking will change my mind!
On a serious note i think the reason the irish clubs preform more admirably is that the euro matches mean much more to the players, the fans and the club than the games do to the scots
Last edited by Acornvilla; 16/11/2009 at 5:00 PM.
Wasn't Mark McGhee linked with the Bohs job a few years ago if I'm not mistaken?
The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights.
Muhammad Ali
Roy Keane is still a pri*k!
I've been past Easter Road and Tynecastle a couple of times since moving over here, although I haven't yet been to a game (other sporting commitments! Someone should really tell the Scots about the wonders of Friday night football!).
There really is no comparison in terms of facilities. When you compare this:
To this:
And Dalymount is one of the better grounds in the league.
Edinburgh is a city less than half the size of Dublin, yet it attracts about 30 000 people to support its two teams every week. Dublin has 6 teams, we'd be lucky to get 10 000 between them.
Where is the evidence that they are anywhere near the same standard excl Rangers and Celtic?
Thew post and the facts imply the LoI is at a higher level.
Anybody done the UEFA coefficient stats excl Celtic and Rangers?
I trust he means Irish League level.
Derry's defeat of Gretna is a record home defeat for a Scottish side in Europe btw.
After he'd left Brighton for not being very good (at the time) and before he went to Motherwell, I believe...
Scottish teams have done tours of Northern Ireland in recent years and the IL teams have got the better of scottish sides most of the time.
Hearts came third in the league came to play Ballymena, got beat by Ballymena, then came to play the blues and it was a very one sided 1 nill win for Linfield and they had their full team out.
The standard of the SPL is falling no doubt, but it is still a higher standard than the LOI or IL. It's easy for teams in this country to pick up their games for one or two games against a much more fancied team, than for them to come over here and raise their games against us.
People are really dillusional to think that the LOI are on par with the SPL just yet. 1st division would be more like it.
The Hallion Battalion Molests football.:D
Excluding Celtic and Rangers, Scotland's UEFA coefficients for the past 5 seasons are 1.000, 0.000, 3.250, 1.500, and 1.000. A grand total of 6.750
The LOI total in that time is 9.541
It helps us starting in an earlier round though.
Also, let's see what the coefficient is when we're not racking up E1m annual losses by the barrel-load.
you sir have too much time on your hands but are a legand nonetheless
+ 1 Legend indeedyou sir have too much time on your hands but are a legand nonetheless
Do you not see the blatantly obvious problem with this? Excl Celtic and Rangers, Scotland only gets 2 Euro places, one of which in recent years has generally gone to the runners up in the Scottish Cup, who have more often than not been minnows (not even SPL sides in a few cases, eg Gretna, Dunfermline). And excl Celtic and Rangers, Scotland effectively has no teams in the CL, which is where the most UEFA coefficient points are to be won. What an utterly meaningless set of stats.
Gretna weren't an SPL club at the time. In fact, they'd just been promoted from the 2nd division to the 1st if I recall correctly. What relevance does that game have to this thread?
Ok, I also had a bit of time on my hands tonight to look into this a bit more. It seems Scotland had extra teams in Europe this year, so what I said about only 2 non Old Firm teams qualifying is no longer true, but it was true for the previous 4 years.
In summary over the past 5 years:
- Number of non Old Firm SPL entrants in Europe: 8
- Number of LOI entrants in Europe: 15
- Number of non Old Firm SPL entrants in CL: 1
- Number of LOI entrants in CL: 5
- Furthest a non Old Firm SPL team has got in CL: 3rd qualifying round (Hearts in 2006/2007)
- Furthest an LOI team has got in CL: 2nd qualifying round (Shelbourne in 2005/2006, Cork in 2006/2007, Drogheda in 2008/2009, Bohs in 2009/2010)
- Furthest a non Old Firm SPL team got in UEFA Cup: Last 32 (knockout stages - Aberdeen in 2007/2008)
- Furthest an LOI team got in UEFA Cup: First Round (Cork in 2005/2006, Derry in 2006/2007, Pats in 2008/2009)
- Furthest a non Old Firm SPL team has got in Europa League: Play-off round (Hearts in 2009/2010)
- Furthest an LOI team has got in Europa League: Play-off round (Pats in 2009/2010)
Overall, even though the LOI had almost twice as many entrants overall and 5 times as many entrants in the CL, they have failed to match the achievements of the non Old Firm SPL clubs. I hadn't realised how far Aberdeen went a couple of years ago (I think GalwayJames must have accidentally forgotten to include that in his original post). That's beyond the wildest dreams of any LOI club. And by the way, they were the only non Old Firm SPL club in Europe that year.
If the non Old Firm SPL clubs had 3 teams in Europe every year for the past 5 years, including 1 in the CL qualifiers every year, I think it's safe to assume their coefficient would have been a lot higher (that's not even considering the fact that one of them may even have made the group stages).
As someone else pointed out, most of the LOI coefficient points have been won in early qualifying rounds, which the likes of Hearts and Aberdeen don't compete in. If LOI clubs were going straight into the 1st round proper of the UEFA Cup, then it would wipe out all of their victories in the UEFA Cup over that period. Our coefficient wouldn't look too good then.
Can we please drop the delusion now?
Mod edit - there's a multi-post function
Last edited by pineapple stu; 17/11/2009 at 9:42 AM.
Outside of everything else.. The Scottish league is one of the worst to watch, can't really say why. But I'd just rather watch a UCD game than a Scottish game...
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