Rugby

**TommyT** · 02/03/2004, 6:04 PM

The Sunday Times had a list of the average attendences at the Celtic League. Connacht were 2200, Leinster 4050 and Munster 4300. Ulster (of limited relevance) was 6000. Also noticed in the RTE guide that 180,000 people watched the Ireland-France match on RTE, ie 10,000 less than watched the Pats v Bohs Cup Semi.

**Dodge** · 02/03/2004, 6:08 PM

But as long as the people in power played rugby in school we'll get overloads of it.

**TommyT** · 02/03/2004, 6:40 PM

We'll get less if we start complaining and challenging their bull**** though. Brown (CE of the IRFU) was in the paper the other week saying they were the only professional sport in the country. The Celtic League is what's show on TG4 if we could get say one game a month on that it'd be an improvement.

**max power** · 02/03/2004, 8:22 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TommyT
[B]We'll get less if we start complaining and challenging their bull**** though. Brown (CE of the IRFU) was in the paper the other week saying they were the only professional sport in the country.

he said that in an interview on newstalk about 8 weeks ago...there is a lot of money behind rugby in this country, powerful money.....

**lopez** · 02/03/2004, 9:51 PM

I've always been surprised how a game between two toff schools gets more snoozepaper coverage than the FAI cup final. Say Blackrock against Belvedere College in the Leinster Schools Cup Final with all the colour photos, top writers and horse mierda that goes with it. FFS, the only people that are interested are the parents (and I'd bet some of them couldn't give a f*ck, cos that's why they sent their kids there in the first place).

**Footie_Fan** · 02/03/2004, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by lopez
I've always been surprised how a game between two toff schools gets more snoozepaper coverage than the FAI cup final. Say Blackrock against Belvedere College in the Leinster Schools Cup Final with all the colour photos, top writers and horse mierda that goes with it. FFS, the only people that are interested are the parents (and I'd bet some of them couldn't give a f*ck, cos that's why they sent their kids there in the first place).

The reason the Senior Cup gets so much coverage is because it is the breathing ground for the stars of the future. Ireland has one of the best schools rugby systems in the world. It is the envy of many including the World Champions. Underlined by the fact that last years Irish Schools Side beat France, England and Wales. To win the tournament. (Don't think Scotland entered, look at their current situation!)

The Senior Cup Final easily gets a higher attendance then the FAI Cup Final and thus justifies more attention. If soccer had the same setup we would be up there with the best of them.

**brendy_�ire** · 02/03/2004, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by TommyT
Ulster (of limited relevance) was 6000.

Care to explain?

**TommyT** · 03/03/2004, 2:07 AM

Originally posted by brendy_eire
Care to explain?

If your trying to suggest I'm some sort of Free State Shoneen you've picked the wrong man. Basically Ulster don't play in a city with an EL team. Though obviously 4 EL teams are from Ulster so it's of LIMITED but not NO relevance.

**TommyT** · 03/03/2004, 2:08 AM

Unfortunately the Schools Cup Final usually gets a crowd not dissimilar to the FAI Cup final.

**lopez** · 03/03/2004, 9:45 AM

Originally posted by Footie_Fan
The reason the Senior Cup gets so much coverage is because it is the breathing ground for the stars of the future. Ireland has one of the best schools rugby systems in the world. It is the envy of many including the World Champions. Underlined by the fact that last years Irish Schools Side beat France, England and Wales. To win the tournament for that tournament. (Don't think Scotland entered, look at their current situation!)

I can see your case. Private and church schools are the breeding ground of Irish rugby. People from national schools rarely become great rugby players probably because the game isn't played there and it's hardly the sport for urban areas. But I'm wondering if many of the people who are there are just on some afternoon off from the office with a nose-bag and endless Cava to give a Barry White about the game. It seems strange that two school rugby teams can attract more support than the football club of town like Longford for a major game.

Originally posted by Footie_Fan
The Senior Cup Final easily gets a higher attendance then the FAI Cup Final and thus justifies more attention. If soccer had the same setup we would be up there with the best of them.

I don't know about that. We're hardly up there in rugby. A quarter finals place by the skin of our teeth in the WC before a severe hammering by not even a finalist hardly constitutes us as one of the elite in a sport professional in less than a dozen countries.

**brendy_�ire** · 03/03/2004, 9:57 AM

Originally posted by TommyT
If your trying to suggest I'm some sort of Free State Shoneen you've picked the wrong man. Basically Ulster don't play in a city with an EL team. Though obviously 4 EL teams are from Ulster so it's of LIMITED but not NO relevance.

Fair enough.

I think attendences directly relate to media coverage, unfortunately. We really should go to TG4 and see I'm they'd be interested in showing eL games as regularly as they show Celtic League matches (maybe once a week/fortnight), I'm sure they'd be interested.
Rugby attendences might be higher also due to their catchment area, ie an entire province, unlike eL teams, which are usually restricted to a town/county.

**S�C** · 03/03/2004, 10:08 AM

Im not certain but I dont think Paul O'Connell went to a 'private-church' school.

There has been a swing away from the total dominance of such schools to an extent, but not totally of course.

**Footie_Fan** · 03/03/2004, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by lopez
It seems strange that two school rugby teams can attract more support than the football club of town like Longford for a major game.

It is strange but it is down to the commitment of the past pupils and everyone who has ever been involved with the schools. There is also massive social gatherings after the matches etc.

Originally posted by lopez
I don't know about that. We're hardly up there in rugby. A quarter finals place by the skin of our teeth in the WC before a severe hammering by not even a finalist hardly constitutes us as one of the elite in a sport professional in less than a dozen countries.

Well even at that we are in the top 8 and if Humphrey's had of slotted that drop goal against Australia we had Scotland in the quarter final and an easy passage to the semi final. Realistically we are the fifth best in the world behind England, France, Australia and New Zealand. Which for a small country like us is good going. Our playing population is only the fraction of the above four mentioned countries.

**my left foot** · 03/03/2004, 1:43 PM

its quite ironic that lopez should mention longford in his argument.alan matthews(towns manager)played rugby for ballinteer community school,hardly middle class.he was also m8s with several lads who won the leinster schools cup with de le salle churchtown in 82ish again hardly middle class as the schools serve nutgrove and holylands ,one of which is well named

**Macy** · 03/03/2004, 1:49 PM

Originally posted by lopez
It seems strange that two school rugby teams can attract more support than the football club of town like Longford for a major game.

Eh? How are we getting dragged into this? We brought plenty to the cup final, in what was the biggest attendance in years.

Besides, the schools are garanteed whatever the total number of students is, plus their parents... Before you mention past pupils (basically anyone that's still alive) and all those that have connections to them.

**max power** · 03/03/2004, 1:50 PM

If st mels from longford were playing in a lenister gaa final your looking at a major crowd as well, a lot of former pupils go along to support their old school, me included.....it would get well over 10,000 ( from longford alone ) and a lot of coverage in national papers as well

**eoinh** · 03/03/2004, 2:14 PM

The All-ireland rugby league has gone down the tubes. In the republic senior rugby consist of two big teams (Leinster and Munster) and a team which attracts considerably less interest - Connaught.

At least the eircom league is relatively nationwide.

BTW schoolboy football is as important to football as it is to rugby.

The main problem with LOI football in newspaper terms is that it isnt an ABC1 sport. Of course the newspapers wont admit that this is the reason they wont cover it.

**lopez** · 03/03/2004, 2:33 PM

S�c: I said private AND church schools not private-church schools. The quote button is there for a reason.

OK, so there are some exceptions to the rules. As in all walks of life.

My left foot: Where did I mention middle class? Private schools are predominately middle class in England, especially more so since Labour got in, not that working class childrens' parents had a clue how to get an assisted place at Eton. In Ireland fees to church schools are (or at least were) means tested more fairly than in England. One example is Presentation College Cork where my wife's family and her friends' brothers, went to.

Macy: Footie Fan says that the Leinster Schools cup gets a bigger attendance than the FAI Cup. Don't know myself, but maybe EL clubs should affiliate themselves to private schools if true. Solve the attendance problem by all accounts.

**TommyT** · 03/03/2004, 2:56 PM

Lads Rugby is a middle class game end of, a couple of exceptions doesn't change that. **** all non-fee paying Church run schools play the game. It's also predominantly urban in Ireland.

Just cos it gets similar attendences doesn't of course mean the Leinster Schools Cup Final (played on Patricks Day) should get more coverage than the FAI Cup Final (it doesn't BTW) one is a national event the other would be of limited interest to those who aren't there. Similar to the way GAA county finals often get large crowds but aren't national events either.

Morto-you're missing the point, I'm not pointing out the attendences are higher oh how terrible, I'm pointing out the average attendences are not much higher so the totalswould be much lower and the viewing figuresaren't that much higher either so HTF can RTE/TG4 justify the ****e coverage they give the EL.

**my left foot** · 03/03/2004, 3:03 PM

sorry lopez,you must have thrown me off the trail with your first post (two toff schools).a lot of the differences in coverage in ireland are for historical reasons,also the spread of support for and choices of games played.rugby and football still suffer from gaa`s ban, although long gone i`m sure there are kids in ireland whose dads push them towards the "noncolonial" games,although thats off the point.the point is that you seem to be attacking this from an english school point of view an american school point of view would be more apropriate.ie american college sport.i`d hazard a guess that in years to come school football will be as heavily covered in ireland as a tradition builds up.this will have nothing to do with professional sport at all