Another way

[dong]

I think "Franchise" in relation to Sporting Fingal only came into popular use as it was derogatory and fitted nicely with the name.
What I would consider a franchise would be McDonalds, O'Briens sandwich bars etc.
Some fair points made by the original poster I think.

[dong]

Dodge, as usual, is spot on in what he says, btw.

The problem is we now think the league is the standard it's been the last few years, and people want to keep it there, not wanting to believe that can never happen.

So there's nothing wrong with the league?
Sound so.
I don't understand what you are saying in the second paragraph there Stu?

[mr.untitled]

Dodge, as usual, is spot on in what he says, btw.

The problem is we now think the league is the standard it's been the last few years, and people want to keep it there, not wanting to believe that can never happen.

fair enough but a population of 4 million, with 3 other popular field sports, living in the shadow of the biggest league in the world simply cannot sustain a league with 22 senior clubs. The league in its current form will run in to problem after problem.

We will have to agree to disagree

[pineapple stu]

So there's nothing wrong with the league?

Nope. The people who run it, maybe, but not the league itself. Centralised contracts, summer soccer, "starting again" (a great meaningless buzzword), removing clubs with no fans, the Australian A League model - all completely pointless discussions, IMO. Get any club who wants in spending what they can afford and we'll have as good a league as we can hope for. If that's not good enough for people, tough.

I don't understand what you are saying in the second paragraph there Stu?

The league is in decline, and people are now looking at new fangled ways to make it back to being as good as it was with as few financial problems as there were with no appreciation of the fact that this decline was inevitable, and that the league as it was was never sustainable.

[mr.untitled]

Get any club who wants in spending what they can afford

Sporting Fingal

[pineapple stu]

Yup. But you can also understand why people are very wary about them, given how reliant they are on external backers? And how people could be concerned that they'd lead us back down the wage-arms race route again?

[SligoBrewer]

Sporting Fingal are unlike UCD in that UCD are sustainable with their small crowds, Fungus aren't.

UCD budget well, spend little and are not dependent on money from some two bit sugar daddy.
SF are the opposite and when the money dries up once the banker/concept collapses, we'll be left with another Dublin City.

[Riddickcule]

Would just like to clarify,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise
Franchise generally means a right or privilege. It may refer to:......
Suffrage, the civil right to vote
Franchising, a business method that involves licensing of trademarks and methods of doing business, such as:
Chain store, retail outlets which share a brand and central management
An exclusive right, for example to sell branded merchandise
Media franchise, ownership of the characters and setting of a film, video game, book, etc., particularly in North American usage


Technically, SF are not a franchise

[mr.untitled]

I have no problem with SF, my problem is the system that allows them to exist. Dodges point that this system works all over the world so its fine but I cant think of any other league (using this system) in the world that faces the same competition or obstacles as the LoI. can you?
There is a market there, whats needed is a product that they will buy.

[seand]

just regarding the semantics of franchise, in sport the concept of "franchises" comes from the states where you literally buy your way into the league. It costs something like $20m to buy a licence or franchise in MLS. The American football, baseball etc clubs are franchises that can be moved around, starting with the Brooklyn/LA Dodgers... Indianapolis/Baltimore Colts, St Louis/Utah Jazz etc etc

In that Fingal sorta bought their way into the league without working their way up in a more traditional football (soccer) style, the franchise seems reasonable to me. Like MK Dons and Livingstone across the water.

Now, if Sporting Fingal are a franchise.... are Wexford Youths?!

[mr.untitled]

Sporting Fingal are unlike UCD in that UCD are sustainable with their small crowds, Fungus aren't.

UCD budget well, spend little and are not dependent on money from some two bit sugar daddy.
SF are the opposite and when the money dries up once the banker/concept collapses, we'll be left with another Dublin City.

at the moment they have as much right to be there as UCD, If you don't want clubs like SF then you need to change the system

[pineapple stu]

Now, if Sporting Fingal are a franchise.... are Wexford Youths?!

Arguably not, given they were a Wexford league representative squad for the previous few years.

I cant think of any other league (using this system) in the world that faces the same competition or obstacles as the LoI. can you?

Are you for real? What obstacles or competition is this? The GAA? Greece supports a professional basketball league. Handball and skiing are big in the Nordic countries. A Premiership-loving public? Big around the world; doesn't sop others supporting their local club. We think our problems are big because we haev to deal with them, but they're in no way unique to this league.

What competition/obstacles are you referring to?

[mr.untitled]

just regarding the semantics of franchise, in sport the concept of "franchises" comes from the states where you literally buy your way into the league. It costs something like $20m to buy a licence or franchise in MLS. The American football, baseball etc clubs are franchises that can be moved around, starting with the Brooklyn/LA Dodgers... Indianapolis/Baltimore Colts, St Louis/Utah Jazz etc etc

In that Fingal sorta bought their way into the league without working their way up in a more traditional football (soccer) style, the franchise seems reasonable to me. Like MK Dons and Livingstone across the water.

Now, if Sporting Fingal are a franchise.... are Wexford Youths?!

Did SF or youths pay the FAI to join the league. They are just new clubs in an old system

[mr.untitled]

Arguably not, given they were a Wexford league representative squad for the previous few years.


Are you for real? What obstacles or competition is this? The GAA? Greece supports a professional basketball league. Handball and skiing are big in the Nordic countries. A Premiership-loving public? Big around the world; doesn't sop others supporting their local club. We think our problems are big because we haev to deal with them, but they're in no way unique to this league.

What competition/obstacles are you referring to?

whats with the 'are you for real', I've been polite so far.
Take nordic countries. I have family in Bergen. Iv been to see SK bran, aswell as following drogs to IK start and HJK helsinki. There is no other field spectator sports in these countries. There is no competition between football and the winter sports.
Take greece. yea they have a popular Basketball league but here there are four field games competing for the same audience. I doubt very many greeks hop on ryanair flights to ANfield or Oldtrafford every other weekend

Check my earlier posts for the obstacles facing the league

[pineapple stu]

I've also been to Brann. There's massive support for the Premiership in Norway. Norway's nearer parts of England than Ireland is, and they travel over regularly. Not an obstacle to them. There's lots of popular sports across Europe that aren't played in Ireland; blaming the existence of the GAA is a cop-out.

[mr.untitled]

I've also been to Brann. There's massive support for the Premiership in Norway. Norway's nearer parts of England than Ireland is, and they travel over regularly. Not an obstacle to them. There's lots of popular sports across Europe that aren't played in Ireland; blaming the existence of the GAA is a cop-out.

I'm not blaming it on the existence of the GAA, but the success of the GAA and IRFU must surely be considered an obstacle that the league must overcome in order to become a success, Obstacles that the Norwegian league doesn't face. Can you honestly tell me that the league did not loose fare weather fans to the GAA when it switched to summer football

[Schumi]

The biggest obstacle the league faces is that its clubs spend too much money. Overcome this and then see whether the system is broken.

[mr.untitled]

I agree, and I liked the original posters idea on how to overcome this obstacle.

[SkStu]

there is a hybrid approach which can be adopted as i have outlined a number of times on this forum before.

I firmly believe that the leagues biggest issue is the proximity and accessibility of the Premiership to football fans in Ireland. That coupled with the saturation in both the British and local media streams. Its very much a no-win situation for the FAI and the clubs though there is a compromise and possible solution that the FAI should be obliged to look into.

The FAI have a role to play in ensuring the best for football in Ireland and also for the national team. These are not linked at present but in order for us to control our own destiny in international terms, all three streams of soccer in Ireland need to be linked.

It boils down to this - we need to be a selling league. We cannot compete with British football in terms of support or success. It is just not feasible.

To be a selling league we need the following:

FAI must stop the nursery clubs from sending players abroad at a young age (or at least place a cap on the numbers that are sent abroad). The vast majority need to be kept in football in Ireland.

The best players are admitted to a FAI run, technique/tactic focussed Academy (based on successful foreign models).

Graduates from this program are "drafted" to LOI clubs based on a number of factors (similar to NFL drafts) on set wage development/professional contracts. From here the players are further developed and gain competitive playing experience within the confines of the LOI.

The best players will be transferred abroad - not just England/Scotland. The nursery club gets a slice of any transfer fee (perhaps 25%). The academy/FAI gets a smaller slice (15%) with the LOI club getting the rest (60%). The nursery club and LOI club also get a portion of any future transfer fees.

The LOI clubs are run in accordance with the licensing terms and the SCP. The government makes grants available for ground/facilities development and encourages tax incentives for domestic investment in LOI clubs.


I know that these are major changes but it seems to me to be totally necessary if the FAI have any interest in truly developing the domestic game to the benefit of our young talent and our domestic clubs. It will be met with a lot of resistance and will take a lot of work from the FAI but both the FAI and the clubs and fans need to accept what we are (or should be), i.e. a successful selling league, and move heaven and earth to get there. The trickiest part would be getting schoolboy/junior clubs on board.

[mr.untitled]

great post SKStu

whats the 'SCP' ?