10 Team PD: Good or Bad

**Riddickcule** · 11/11/2009, 4:02 PM

Pros: Better competition, More derbies, Always something to play for, Talent concentrated to smaller amount

Cons: Clubs can be fudged even at mid-table, Playing the same team too many times, teams take risks because they don't want to go down ie. not trying out new young players

**p�l-dcfc** · 11/11/2009, 4:08 PM

Fran Gavin made some interesting allusions to a single league containing all 20 (+/-2) clubs. Also mentioned another bout of restructuring could be on the horizon in the next 18 months.

**galwayjames** · 11/11/2009, 5:24 PM

The standard in a 20-team league wouldn't be good enough, plus the facilities aren't there, I'm in favour of having a 10 team Premier but in the future an All Ireland league with 16 teams in the Premier is my preference.

**Mr A** · 11/11/2009, 5:27 PM

Was there really any noticeable increase in standard with the move to ten teams?

Not in any of the premier games I watched anyway. If anything the standard in the league is slipping.

And league structure makes no real impact on whether facilities are better.

**galwayjames** · 11/11/2009, 5:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Was there really any noticeable increase in standard with the move to ten teams?

Not in any of the premier games I watched anyway. If anything the standard in the league is slipping.

And league structure makes no real impact on whether facilities are better.

I'm talking in relation to a 20 team Premier, not the 12 team Premier there. I wrote the original post wrong.

**JC_GUFC** · 11/11/2009, 5:35 PM

I've always been in favour of a bigger division - I know the teams at the bottom will be weaker but it will give clubs the chance to consolidate their position in the Premier Division.

It was exciting this season with only Dundalk having little to play for in the last few weeks but at the same time it put too much pressure on other teams to get results. The top 4 in the 1st Division wouldn't have been disgraced in the Premier by any means.

**peadar1987** · 11/11/2009, 6:08 PM

Just from a personal point of view, I'd prefer a slightly bigger Premier, so I'm not watching the same opposition 4 times in a season. It's a little harder to get worked up for the fourth game against a side than it would be for the second.

But the league has problems much more serious, and much less easily solved than just having the wrong number of teams in the premier!

**citybone** · 11/11/2009, 9:20 PM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

Just from a personal point of view, I'd prefer a slightly bigger Premier, so I'm not watching the same opposition 4 times in a season. It's a little harder to get worked up for the fourth game against a side than it would be for the second.

But the league has problems much more serious, and much less easily solved than just having the wrong number of teams in the premier!

a 12 team slit like the spl would be good but as we would be short of clubs in the 1st division as we stand. so 2 ten team leagues would best the best situation right now.

**adamd164** · 11/11/2009, 9:24 PM

Standard was low enough this year; bringing more first division teams up wouldn't help that.

Having said that, 7 of the 10 clubs next season are gonna be Leinster/Greater Dublin-based, which is a bit ridiculous.

**oriel** · 11/11/2009, 9:30 PM

A 16 team Prem Div is the way forward, playing each team home and away once, add in lge cup and fai cup and prob will be up 20 home games a year, more than enough.

Have relegation to a regional lge.

**KevB76** · 11/11/2009, 9:50 PM

I dont like the 10 team premier. Youve got the usual suspects taking up the top 4 places, and need to finish 7th or higher to guarantee staying up - so you're fighting for 3 mid-table places. So for a team thats just been promoted, you've absolutely no breathing space to adjust from a 1st div set up to prem and not be relegated staright back down, and the gap between the 1st div and top premier teams remains ever-increasing.
Also, playing every team 4 times is grand for the 1st div but just doesnt seem right and proper for our Premier league.

I would in theory be in favour of a 16 team premier, but only if there is a 10 team 1st division as well, because without the chance of promotion/relegation the whole thing is pointless apart from the few who have a chance of winning or european competition. A 26 club league is not likely, so by extension I'm not in favour of a 16 team premier.

12 team prem and 10 team 1st is what suits our league best in my opinion.

**BonnieShels** · 12/11/2009, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by oriel

A 16 team Prem Div is the way forward, playing each team home and away once, add in lge cup and fai cup and prob will be up 20 home games a year, more than enough.

Have relegation to a regional lge.

I've been discussing this ad nauseum for years. A wholesale change to the structure of all Irish soccer is needed from the ground roots up to incorporate everyone rather than the ad hoc situation that we presently have that just seems tacked on. I mean the play offs this year weren't there last year and I'm not sure we can say that they'll be there next year.
This doesn't happen in Britain or in the Province, and even the IFA went through witha reorganisation over the last few years that was clearly road mapped.

I've been throwing around a few ideas with a friend the last few days since the Kildare and Derry debacles.

I've come to the conclusion that a 14 team Premier with a Scottish style split would be nigh on perfect imo.

That would give you 13 home, 13 away games pre-split (plus a further 6 games post-split).

Then comes the interesting part...

I was thinking about how the split really doesn't effect any major change to the top and the bottom of the scottish leagues and a way to solve that...

If going into the split of the top 7 and the bottom 7 where only the results against the teams on your side of the split are carried over I think you will find that pretty much every game becomes competitive throughout the season as every club still has to fight against relegation in the Bottom split and the winning of the league championship itself would be still open to many in the Top split.

I would also have a straight 2 up, 2 down policy.

I haven't refined my various ideas for the first division but underneath that teh idea of regional feeder leagues is go.

**1882** · 12/11/2009, 1:06 AM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

I've been discussing this ad nauseum for years. A wholesale change to the structure of all Irish soccer is needed from the ground roots up to incorporate everyone rather than the ad hoc situation that we presently have that just seems tacked on. I mean the play offs this year weren't there last year and I'm not sure we can say that they'll be there next year.
This doesn't happen in Britain or in the Province, and even the IFA went through witha reorganisation over the last few years that was clearly road mapped.

I've been throwing around a few ideas with a friend the last few days since the Kildare and Derry debacles.

I've come to the conclusion that a 14 team Premier with a Scottish style split would be nigh on perfect imo.

That would give you 13 home, 13 away games pre-split (plus a further 6 games post-split).

Then comes the interesting part...

I was thinking about how the split really doesn't effect any major change to the top and the bottom of the scottish leagues and a way to solve that...

If going into the split of the top 7 and the bottom 7 where only the results against the teams on your side of the split are carried over I think you will find that pretty much every game becomes competitive throughout the season as every club still has to fight against relegation in the Bottom split and the winning of the league championship itself would be still open to many in the Top split.

I would also have a straight 2 up, 2 down policy.

I haven't refined my various ideas for the first division but underneath that teh idea of regional feeder leagues is go.

I like that idea. However I would only have a Premier Division, the 2nd tier would be like the A Championship. The Premier Division would consist of Bohs, Shamrock Rovers, Cork, Sligo, St. Pats, Derry (if they come back), Drogheda, Dundalk, Bray, Galway United, Shelbourne, Limerick, Finn Harps, UCD, Monaghan Utd, and Longford/Wexford/Fingal. With the rest as amateur clubs in 2 regional leagues (north/south) like the A Championship, with one from each going up.

**BonnieShels** · 12/11/2009, 1:19 AM

Originally Posted by 1882

I like that idea. However I would only have a Premier Division, the 2nd tier would be like the A Championship. The Premier Division would consist of Bohs, Shamrock Rovers, Cork, Sligo, St. Pats, Derry (if they come back), Drogheda, Dundalk, Bray, Galway United, Shelbourne, Limerick, Finn Harps, UCD, Monaghan Utd, and Longford/Wexford/Fingal. With the rest as amateur clubs in 2 regional leagues (north/south) like the A Championship, with one from each going up.

Yeah I was working on a Provincial regional structure promoting to a first division which would act like a filter league as such.

I put it out for comments earlier on. I'll see what comes back to me tomorrow.

Bohs, Bray Cork, Derry, Drogs, Dundalk, Galway, Shamrock Rovers, Shels, Sligo, Fungus, Pat's, UCD, Waterford were my provisional Prem. But that's not relevant. Structure the league first then decide who's in it.

**1882** · 12/11/2009, 1:31 AM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Yeah I was working on a Provincial regional structure promoting to a first division which would act like a filter league as such.

I put it out for comments earlier on. I'll see what comes back to me tomorrow.

Bohs, Bray Cork, Derry, Drogs, Dundalk, Galway, Shamrock Rovers, Shels, Sligo, Fungus, Pat's, UCD, Waterford were my provisional Prem. But that's not relevant. Structure the league first then decide who's in it.

I don't think the support is there to maintain a 1st division as it stands now. If it was to be split into 2 regions, it would increase the number of local derbys between teams which would keep interest up, costs would be lower as travel would be shorter. I think it should be in most parts an amateur league. The only major costs would be for a manager, travel and refs, which I think gate receipts would cover in most cases.

**BonnieShels** · 12/11/2009, 1:43 AM

Originally Posted by 1882

I don't think the support is there to maintain a 1st division as it stands now. If it was to be split into 2 regions, it would increase the number of local derbys between teams which would keep interest up, costs would be lower as travel would be shorter. I think it should be in most parts an amateur league. The only major costs would be for a manager, travel and refs, which I think gate receipts would cover in most cases.

Well that's the sort of lower league I was structuring.

Only issue there is the relegation filtering.

Say you had a North and South conference and say it's one up from each and two down from the prem. That would be fine... but what if the two prem teams to be relegated are say Cork and Limerick? You would have an imbalance in the south v the north. A solution to that would be to not let another lower southern team be promoted into that Conference.

But that opens the annual indecisive grey area taht is the LOI. I'm trying to balance this out at present.

(I talk as if I am in charge of the new LOI format... oops.

)

**DJP09** · 12/11/2009, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by KevB76

I dont like the 10 team premier. Youve got the usual suspects taking up the top 4 places, and need to finish 7th or higher to guarantee staying up - so you're fighting for 3 mid-table places. So for a team thats just been promoted, you've absolutely no breathing space to adjust from a 1st div set up to prem and not be relegated staright back down, and the gap between the 1st div and top premier teams remains ever-increasing.

Agree with this point the teams coming up need time to adjust and with a 10 team league there is very little breathing space to allow them to consolidate and grow which perpetuates a league with 3/4 top teams and the rest playing to avoid relegation.

**Dodge** · 12/11/2009, 9:04 AM

Welcome back Riddickule. Missed your constant worrying about the shape of the league...

**dublinred** · 12/11/2009, 9:19 AM

Sorry for going back on topic but in reply to the original post I think it went very good this season there was always something to play in our own case crowds were up despite the recession and our league position for most of the season.

**peadar1987** · 12/11/2009, 9:22 AM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Well that's the sort of lower league I was structuring.

Only issue there is the relegation filtering.

Say you had a North and South conference and say it's one up from each and two down from the prem. That would be fine... but what if the two prem teams to be relegated are say Cork and Limerick? You would have an imbalance in the south v the north. A solution to that would be to not let another lower southern team be promoted into that Conference.

They have this in England, as what they do is just shuffle the divisions a little, so if Cork and Limerick went down, and say, Athlone were in the A Championship South, they'd promote say, Cobh, and switch Athlone into the A Championship North to even out the numbers. Most of the midlands clubs, the three Galway clubs, and the Dublin clubs could conceivably play in either a north or a south division.