Send them back!

[dahamsta]

People shouldn't go to work if they have a (bad) cold.

This is kind of off-subject tbh, I was referring more to (very) minor illnesses. My ellipses match your ellipses.

[Magicme]

Monkfish darling we are no strangers and you know that yes I have liberal viewpoints but you should also know that I have 12 years of experience of working with refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants and if in that time I have failed to come across a more than average number of shysters, then is that not good enough for me to form a valid opinion on migration in this country?

When I was 18 years old I was in Holland staying at my aunts and met a group of Kosovar refugees (this was in 1992 before many knew Kosovo existed) and they had been forced to flee their country or die in war. The conditions they were living under was akin to what the J1 visa students do in USA, 20 to a 2 bed apartment, but they would rather suffer that indignity that die at the hands of tyrants. I could give you a list of cases that I worked on with Roma, Nigerians, Congolese etc that would give you sleepless nights for the rest of your days, these are real people who have experienced real horrors that we can only imagine or watch on tv/movies, I know I still have nightmares and as a result of having my eyes opened I wouldnt begrudge even the biggest chancer in the world a opportunity to gain a stable life for themselves and their families.

We dont own Ireland, it belongs to the world and as a citizen of the world I dont feel it is up to me to say where anyone "belongs" or doesnt.*



I realise how sickly sweet that sounds but its how I feel.

[John83]

I'm delighted to see such a reasonable response here.

This Kiely fellow's comments, while lamentable, are not among the more extreme anti-immigrant comments I've heard recently. (In particular, I've found taxi drivers to have taken to the subject with even more gusto than usual.) What's really awful, I think, is Fine Gael's response.

While Enda Kenny criticised him yesterday,

“I disagreed fundamentally with the Mayor of Limerick; it was a most unfortunate statement,” said Mr Kenny, who said he would meet Mr Kiely next week. “We value the input and contribution and work ethic of our EU colleagues and I’m glad he has retracted his comments.”
Irish Times, November 14

I don't think his response was timely or sufficient. FG spokespeople and individual members were quick to distance themselves from his comments, but I think I read that they defended him from calls for his resignation (can anyone find a citation for that? - maybe I'm confusing this with Willie O'Dea who definitely said so http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Ma...-it.5821065.jp).

Meanwhile, I can't help but look on other partys' comments as anything more than cynically jumping on an opportunity to hurt an election rival.

[Neish]

Unfortunetly for the liberal leftie types, people like me will always believe in what they see and know for themselves.

Taking the word of strangers on an internet forum leaves you open to have the wool pulled over your eyes. (Something people in this country have been guilty of for so long regarding a lot of issues)

An undoubtably racist man once asked me ''where were these people (his words not mine) pre 1997, before the country was flush with cash?

I still cant come up with an answer.

Why would they come here when there was no work for them? You started this thread saying you agree the unemployed foreign nationals should be sent home. Then you ask where were they when there was no work for them. The Celtic tiger would not of existed or at least to the ectend it went to without foreign national labour.

[jebus]

Of course any argument is a moot point because if Ireland wanted to send back non-working non-nationals they would have to violate the EU's freedom of movement act and would have to pull Ireland out of the EU.

Good luck with keeping the country afloat without foreign aid and workers. I would comment that a politician should know this but of course when has incompetence or ignorance ever been a hinderance to political office in Ireland?

As for him resigning, he obviously should. If you're in public office, are charged with the best interests of the people of Limerick and haven't realised that a) Limerick is quite multi-cultural these days and b) your comments might make some of them feel at best uncomfortable and unwelcome then you've failed your office and your people in my opinion and should resign.

Obviously that won't happen, and obviously it's ridiculous of Fianna Fail to try and sit on the high ground after the O'Donoghue nonsense but, well we live in Ireland I guess, the obvious is normally seen as the last resort

[dahamsta]

(It's "moot point". Sorry, it's one of those ones that bugs me, like "rediculous".)

[jebus]

I say we kick the grammar nazis out of the country first

[dahamsta]

They're the worst. Rediculous.

[Monkfish]

You started this thread saying you agree the unemployed foreign nationals should be sent home. .

I did? and where have I said iv a problem with people coming here to work?

No problem with anyone looking to earn an honest wage and paying their way.

Lot of people question why these people from war torn countrys only started coming here in mass numbers post '97. Not like war is a new thing or anything.
Im one of them and am looking for the view of the book learned members on this site.

[jebus]

Because there weren't many jobs here pre-Celtic Tiger, so there would have been no point in them coming looking for work would there?

They started arriving as soon as the economy started rising, happens in every country

[Monkfish]

Your comments just don't have the credibility of others,.

Bit like Gary Neville going on the RAWK forum to convince them Stevie G is crap though aint it?

If I wanted a comfortable debate in which I could come out of it feeling good about myself because I done the right thing and all my forum friends agreed id be over on **********, but my stance on some Israeli issues would have me banned in a second.

Storm and Front are bad words then?

no point in them coming looking for work would there?

Collecting dole is work?

[John83]

Bit like Gary Neville going on the RAWK forum to convince them Stevie G is crap though aint it?

That's a ridiculous comparison. It's not like this forum was dedicated to discussing the benefits of immigration. Heck, a football forum is probably as good a place as any to look for anti-immigrant opinion.

You asked why people didn't come here before there was money. Do you think they just stayed home? Immigration always goes to wealthier nations, with geography, history, language and legislation playing a role in directing it too.

Magicme's experience is a lot more credible than your anecdotes, which echo urban myths driven by anti-immigrant feeling.

There's not one person here who'll argue that welfare fraud is acceptable, but your arguments seem to suggest that we're saying that it's okay if immigrants do it.

[Monkfish]

Magicme's experience is a lot more credible than your anecdotes, which echo urban myths driven by anti-immigrant feeling.

.

Go and have a look for yourself sure. Why take the word of anyone?

[jebus]

Collecting dole is work?

As long as they are looking for work it's fine though

As has been said, they obviously have some spongers in their group, but then so the Irish and every other group.

Show me a way of proving who is an actual sponger and then point out the % of immigrants who are spongers and i'll think about whether or not we should send them home (the % that is), the ones that were working can stay here on the dole as they've been paying their taxes, the ones that are looking for work can stay as well, wouldn't begrudge anyone the option of trying to better their life in a foreign country after all

And don't start on storm front either

[bennocelt]

The only people who are riding this country are the great patriots in the "republican party"

[dahamsta]

Storm and Front are bad words then?

They are when you put them together. I've already been invaded by those arguments for abortion once, bringing them over here again is a bannable offense. I'm not kidding about this.

I'm not going to comment any more on the subject in hand, I can't and will never have respect for your attitude towards our immigrants. I'll leave the thread for the moment but I haven't been happy about it since the start.

[thischarmingman]

EDIT Im just after noticeing the thread title '' Send them home'' with a thumbs up beside it, surely a banable offence

No need to ban people for expressing an opinion, however offensive it may be. Most of the time it's just a matter of giving them enough rope.

[francesco_1]

The mayor is a tool why he said that i never know, "during the good times is was grand" he says but we are in debt now? what kind a statement is that saying it was alright to rip of the tax payer when the money was there.

Only a few weeks ago he and his party were telling us vote yes for europe and now he's talking about deporting people which is illegal. he should make up his mind.

During the boom thousands of jobs were to be got but you didnt hear the goverment warning the irish people who were long term unemployed they would be kicked off the dole if they didnt take one up they were happy for the eastern european's to come in and drive the country forward which they did.

The talk about the forn'ers getting everything free it silly, they only get what they are entitled to by law and they dont make the laws so its the goverment who needs to answer that.

When i hear the other thing said i think about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI

Perhaps the mayor can visit some pubs around the city or bettingshops for that matter and see fella's on the dole there almost 7 days a week they must be fair lucky.

[Magicme]

Francesco, you have sumed up alot of what I think without getting over emotional about it, like I tend to do coz I know the people behind the situations and unlike our government refuse to see them as just numbers/stats and see them as people.

I have long said (since about 1998 when first worked with refugees in Ireland) that our government are entirely to blame for any of the problems. I have suggested since way back then, and even suggested it to our lord and saviour Bertie during a meeting with him, that when Refugees/Asylum Seekers arrive in Ireland the priority must be to help them work on their English and then help them train to a certain level for jobs here.

The way I would like to see it is when they arrive they must do a 6 month English Language course to bring them up to a certain level. Then they must do a FAS type training course in something they would like to work at. After that year they must actively seek employment or risk having benefits cut, like everyone else, and maybe they should for 6 months after they start work be paying a little higher tax or a levy to offset the cost of the English and training courses they have done. Then 18 months after arriving here, they are employed, active members of our communities instead of sitting waiting for their cases to be heard in little more than prisons rotting away and contributing nothing to their own lives or others.

Its our government that have made them targets and its time that the bullseye is taken off their backs and they are made to feel part of our society.

[Neish]

Because there weren't many jobs here pre-Celtic Tiger, so there would have been no point in them coming looking for work would there?

They started arriving as soon as the economy started rising, happens in every country

Yeah that was what I was saying