Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[kingdom hoop]

It's all bandwagon stuff really.

When Munster and Ireland were poor in rugby, no-one wanted to know except a few rugby heads.

Munster win a few games and the Ireland rugby team win a few games and suddenly everyone follows rugby.

There's certainly a strong bandwagon-effect but you're greatly mistaken if you think the only people who followed rugby before recently were "a few rugby heads". A bit of success doesn't take a sport from 'nowhere' to 'everywhere'.

[endabob1]

Bang on there Bunk. The bubble won't burst for several reasons but the biggest one is the structure the IRFU put in place when the game went professional. Unlike the FAI, the IRFU showed themselves to be a very clever forward thinking organisation. They knew a country of our size could not possibly support a league the size of the AIL as a professional entity, clubs would have gone under in double quick time (how could Blackrock have afforded to pay the best player on the planet and keep a competitive team together?) this was seen with the collapse of the Scottish and Welsh leagues who thought they knew better. The IRFU pretty much resurrected rugby in those countries with the Magners league idea, giving them the opportunity to use "provincial teams" as opposed to the traditional "club" model. For those of you saying Munster are not technically a club, I am sorry to burst your bubble but for the purposes of Heineken Cup and Magners League, they are indeed "a club" as are Ulster, Leinster and Connaught. All of their players are registered with club sides merely to confirm eligibilty to play for the larger "Province" because of some old rule or other from back when the game was amateur. Irish rugby is now on the cusp of something massive, we are leading the way in Europe, this is something for us all to be proud of. rugby fans or not.

The Provincial structure is not unique, it's modelled entirely on the All-Black set-up, local clubs, provinces, national team at the top of the pyramid with first dibs on the players availability. Everything revolves around the national team first and foremost, the provinces come secondary to that.
Warren Gatland was in charge of Ireland in the early days of professionalism and was very influential in the structure.

[DonnyG]

And for me personally I'll cut to the chase and say I'm not as proud of the Irish soccer team as I am of the Rugby team or the county team and it all boils down to location. Soccer feels too anglicised a game for my liking, guys like Doyle, Duff, Given, Andy Reid etc are legends and if the whole squad was like that there'd be no problem but don't expect me to sing the praises of someone like Caleb Folan who essentially is here because he isn't good enough for England. To compare with the rugby lads, I regularly see them training, I have a book with each of their autographs and even go to see Munster play. My only first hand experience with an Irish player is at the Late Late Show when our captain came on to tell us all to lower our expectations and continued to explain how we're not as good as England.

Even look at the Lucozade "last 15 minutes" adverts. For Rugby we get ROG, the hero of our first six nations in decades, football there's gooch the best player in the game and likewise Shefflin. For soccer there's a former reserve goalkeeper telling us through an English accent how bravely the team will battle.
Or how about Lawrenson when he expresses his viewpoint as an "Irishman" as he speaks through a thick english accent on the national british tv station. Or how we've now played some home games in London. It's a game and setup that makes me very uneasy about being passionite towards it at times, I wouldn't have those reservations with Rugby, Football or Hurling.

You see this is something I don't understand. I am Irish through and through and put my support for the Irish football team before all other. But I now live in Australia permanently after I married an Aussie. We are expecting our first child and to me that child will be as much Irish as Australian. I will bring them up sharing my passions and heritage. Say for example they were to become a decent footballer (long shot but stay with me) would they not be as entitled to play for Ireland as someone who grew up in the country? Would their Aussie accent outweigh their Irish parent and love for Ireland?

[CarrickFan]

You see this is something I don't understand. I am Irish through and through and put my support for the Irish football team before all other. But I now live in Australia permanently after I married an Aussie. We are expecting our first child and to me that child will be as much Irish as Australian. I will bring them up sharing my passions and heritage. Say for example they were to become a decent footballer (long shot but stay with me) would they not be as entitled to play for Ireland as someone who grew up in the country? Would their Aussie accent outweigh their Irish parent and love for Ireland?

your spot on sir...i wouldnt pass any heed on the original poster..he just comes on to agitate and annoy...he wont even have the balls to answer you post as he always avoids poeople who challenge him with valid points

[Maroon 7]

ireland v australia rugby in croke park today ... 70,000 plus fans at match could have foo led me atmosphere is terrible ( sounds like stadium half full) even commetators have mentioned it 3-4 times the lack of support for team ... do the great /wonderfull fans only cheer / sing when they are winning... compared to atsmosphere last night when fans were magnificent backing an irish soccer team ..

Can't really compare a Saturday evening game (especially a world-cup playoff) with a Sunday afternoon game (with half the crowd probably still hungover).

[Stuttgart88]

We're not comparing like-with-like. Qualifying for a WC is a major football achievement for Ireland. Not making a WC Q/F is a disaster for the rugby team. Also, beating Australia ina November test is nice, but not crucial. I'm not sure there'd have been many people leaving Croker yesterday absolutely gutted if we'd lost 13-20, but maybe that says more about me than the rugby crowd.

The only game I can think of in rugby that is equivalent to a knockout game is something like when we played Argentina in 2003 as third seed(?) and we won by a point. That was a winner take all play off game.

I love the 6 Nations and winning the Slam was a great achievement - one to be savoured - but the fact that if you have a bad 6N campaign sure you just start again next year, totally un-disadvantaged. It's just not the same, not to mention the truly global nature of football.

[tetsujin1979]

I'm not sure there'd have been many people leaving Croker yesterday absolutely gutted if we'd lost 13-20, but maybe that says more about me than the rugby crowd.

The Ireland and Australia rugby teams are much closer matched than the French and Ireland soccer teams.
Compare and contrast the reactions of the soccer fans with the draws with Italy?

[Reality Bites]

We're not comparing like-with-like. Qualifying for a WC is a major football achievement for Ireland. Not making a WC Q/F is a disaster for the rugby team. Also, beating Australia ina November test is nice, but not crucial. I'm not sure there'd have been many people leaving Croker yesterday absolutely gutted if we'd lost 13-20, but maybe that says more about me than the rugby crowd.

The only game I can think of in rugby that is equivalent to a knockout game is something like when we played Argentina in 2003 as third seed(?) and we won by a point. That was a winner take all play off game.

I love the 6 Nations and winning the Slam was a great achievement - one to be savoured - but the fact that if you have a bad 6N campaign sure you just start again next year, totally un-disadvantaged. It's just not the same, not to mention the truly global nature of football.

The Point is winning the Grand Slam will never never compare with beating England in Euro 88 or the penalty shoot-out in Italia 90 for the mood and euphoria it generated, those moment resonate deeper simply because soccer is the peoples game Rugby is a game for the middle classes and boarding school set, In Dublin it starts in Kielys in Donnybrook and ends somewhere just outside Dunlaoighre with pockets of stronghold in class divided cities like Cork and limerick..You are never going to get a Christy Moore song about the Grand Slam, the best you'll get is closing Dawson Street on a Sunday afternoon.

We always qualify for Rugby WC tournaments but you'll hardly ever going to hear of a Joxer story with sleeping bags rolled out after all the stout was polished of simply because the lads from Foxrock or Douglas will be booked into the Radisson or Hilton . There won't be any fans there from Ballybough or Ballymun.

Rugby is Populist at the moment but it's still an elitist sport for aspiring classes and middle classes..thats the Class issue thing out of the way.

On technique its several levels below soccer. There was a big hoopla yesterday because a 22 yr prop burst through 2 or three Aussie Tackles.. not skill in my opinion, the guys is no different to a prize bull stuffed with a diet and weight regime to give him bulk so its no wonder he can knock a few lads over with the Ball squeezed to his chest, in soccer if you can skip past three players while only relying on ball contol, speed and trickery its real skill simply because you never have full possession of the ball only the Goalkeeper has that, Compare Maradonas unreal skill in WC 86 and Rugbys equivalent Johan Lomu in Rugby WC 95, there is no comparison Maradona was a gifted Genius Johann Lomu was Freakishly big and fast but thats it.

[colster]

The Point is winning the Grand Slam will never never compare with beating England in Euro 88 or the penalty shoot-out in Italia 90 for the mood and euphoria it generated, those moment resonate deeper simply because soccer is the peoples game Rugby is a game for the middle classes and boarding school set, In Dublin it starts in Kielys in Donnybrook and ends somewhere just outside Dunlaoighre with pockets of stronghold in class divided cities like Cork and limerick..You are never going to get a Christy Moore song about the Grand Slam, the best you'll get is closing Dawson Street on a Sunday afternoon.

Beating England in Euro 88 you won't get anything that will beat that in rugby, soccer or any other sport.
As for your comment about Rugby being a middle class sport you haven't a clue. I support both soccer and rugby and this is a complete generalisation of Rugby supporters. As for Christy Moore not writing a song for the grand slam thats just ridiculous. Anyway, who do you think played for the Irish team during the 6 Nations last year.

We always qualify for Rugby WC tournaments but you'll hardly ever going to hear of a Joxer story with sleeping bags rolled out after all the stout was polished of simply because the lads from Foxrock or Douglas will be booked into the Radisson or Hilton . There won't be any fans there from Ballybough or Ballymun.

Complete rubbish. I think you'll find similar stories from both Leinster, Munster fans and Irish fans and the lengths they went to to get to Heineken Cup games and Grand Slam games and also to World Cups.

Rugby is Populist at the moment but it's still an elitist sport for aspiring classes and middle classes..thats the Class issue thing out of the way.

Rugby has always been a well supported sport in this country especially at International level.

On technique its several levels below soccer. There was a big hoopla yesterday because a 22 yr prop burst through 2 or three Aussie Tackles.. not skill in my opinion, the guys is no different to a prize bull stuffed with a diet and weight regime to give him bulk so its no wonder he can knock a few lads over with the Ball squeezed to his chest, in soccer if you can skip past three players while only relying on ball contol, speed and trickery its real skill simply because you never have full possession of the ball only the Goalkeeper has that, Compare Maradonas unreal skill in WC 86 and Rugbys equivalent Johan Lomu in Rugby WC 95, there is no comparison Maradona was a gifted Genius Johann Lomu was Freakishly big and fast but thats it.

I know if that lad had been playing soccer he would have gone down rolling around the ground like he'd been shot at the first whiff of a tackle.
Jonah Lomu!!! What are you like. Maradona is perhaps the best to have ever played football. Lomu is nowhere near the best player to have played Rugby. Just shows how much you know about Rugby?

[CarrickFan]

The Point is winning the Grand Slam will never never compare with beating England in Euro 88 or the penalty shoot-out in Italia 90 for the mood and euphoria it generated, those moment resonate deeper simply because soccer is the peoples game Rugby is a game for the middle classes and boarding school set, In Dublin it starts in Kielys in Donnybrook and ends somewhere just outside Dunlaoighre with pockets of stronghold in class divided cities like Cork and limerick..You are never going to get a Christy Moore song about the Grand Slam, the best you'll get is closing Dawson Street on a Sunday afternoon.

We always qualify for Rugby WC tournaments but you'll hardly ever going to hear of a Joxer story with sleeping bags rolled out after all the stout was polished of simply because the lads from Foxrock or Douglas will be booked into the Radisson or Hilton . There won't be any fans there from Ballybough or Ballymun.

Rugby is Populist at the moment but it's still an elitist sport for aspiring classes and middle classes..thats the Class issue thing out of the way.

On technique its several levels below soccer. There was a big hoopla yesterday because a 22 yr prop burst through 2 or three Aussie Tackles.. not skill in my opinion, the guys is no different to a prize bull stuffed with a diet and weight regime to give him bulk so its no wonder he can knock a few lads over with the Ball squeezed to his chest, in soccer if you can skip past three players while only relying on ball contol, speed and trickery its real skill simply because you never have full possession of the ball only the Goalkeeper has that, Compare Maradonas unreal skill in WC 86 and Rugbys equivalent Johan Lomu in Rugby WC 95, there is no comparison Maradona was a gifted Genius Johann Lomu was Freakishly big and fast but thats it.

Good post....just to point out i think im right in saying that the Rugby team dont even have to qualify for the World Cup much less go through a 10 game campaign which included playing the World Champions twice.

[Schumi]

Rugby has always been a well supported sport in this country especially at International level.

Better supported than football for as long as I can remember

[kennedmc]

Even in the 90's when the Irish rugby team were cack they still got great support and internationals especially the 5 nations were always sold out.

Even the club game in the early 90 with the AIL acheived some big attendances etc. easily comparable to what Irish football clubs got. The IRFU decided that provinces were the way to go and though its not perfect they have been proved right. Look at Irish football clubs at the moment?!

The idea that rugby has just been popular over the last 10 years is rubbish - although it is more popular now and has probably attracted some of the ole ole brigade from the football in the late 80's and 90's - maybe Christy Moore will do a song about it? Wound that just be grand - think of the crack we'd have

Ultimately there are some @rseholes that follow rugby that have a negative view on football. Although after reading some the opinions on this thread I can say the same about some Irish football fans - appears they too have a nicely balanced chip on each shoulder.

[Reality Bites]

Beating England in Euro 88 you won't get anything that will beat that in rugby, soccer or any other sport.
As for your comment about Rugby being a middle class sport you haven't a clue. I support both soccer and rugby and this is a complete generalisation of Rugby supporters. As for Christy Moore not writing a song for the grand slam thats just ridiculous. Anyway, who do you think played for the Irish team during the 6 Nations last year.

Christy Moore has always leaned heavily towards Socialism, hence I feel he feel more comfortable singing about a Irish Soccer team supported by Grass roots working class supporters like the fictional Joxer rather than an accountant from Howth who had a great time with his Blackrock buddies on a Leinster away trip


I know if that lad had been playing soccer he would have gone down rolling around the ground like he'd been shot at the first whiff of a tackle.
Jonah Lomu!!! What are you like. Maradona is perhaps the best to have ever played football. Lomu is nowhere near the best player to have played Rugby. Just shows how much you know about Rugby?

As per my original point - Because you never have full possession of the ball in soccer ( unlike in rugby) beating a player is a far superior skill I see nothing in your response that refutes this apart from a silly comment about a tackle.

[peadar1987]

Even the club game in the early 90 with the AIL acheived some big attendances etc. easily comparable to what Irish football clubs got. The IRFU decided that provinces were the way to go and though its not perfect they have been proved right. Look at Irish football clubs at the moment?!

A provincial system just wouldn't work in football though.

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php...de#post1222903

That's my opinion on it anyway.

[Murfinator]

You see this is something I don't understand. I am Irish through and through and put my support for the Irish football team before all other. But I now live in Australia permanently after I married an Aussie. We are expecting our first child and to me that child will be as much Irish as Australian. I will bring them up sharing my passions and heritage. Say for example they were to become a decent footballer (long shot but stay with me) would they not be as entitled to play for Ireland as someone who grew up in the country? Would their Aussie accent outweigh their Irish parent and love for Ireland?

Well that's something that I've never understood. You've chosen to live in Australia, that is your country of choice, you might have a romantic view of yourself being 100% Irish or whatever you like but you're not part of the community here, you don't live the day to day life or communicate with the people here all the time every day. I speak form experience knowing many Americans with distant Irish relatives who claim to be heavily Irish despite never actually being in the country. For some people being "Irish" is some abstract romance thing in their head that makes them special as its something unique to them compared to the people around them. To me, being Irish is choosing Ireland as your home, Australia is your home and it was your decision to make it that, just like it's my decision to choose Ireland as mine.

[kennedmc]

A provincial system just wouldn't work in football though.

http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php...de#post1222903

That's my opinion on it anyway.

I don't disagree with that. The way UEFA govern the game it couldn't happen and as we only have 3 provinces it just wouldn't make sense! (For a lot more reasons then that also).

[Paddy Garcia]

Well that's something that I've never understood. You've chosen to live in Australia, that is your country of choice, you might have a romantic view of yourself being 100% Irish or whatever you like but you're not part of the community here, you don't live the day to day life or communicate with the people here all the time every day. I speak form experience knowing many Americans with distant Irish relatives who claim to be heavily Irish despite never actually being in the country. For some people being "Irish" is some abstract romance thing in their head that makes them special as its something unique to them compared to the people around them. To me, being Irish is choosing Ireland as your home, Australia is your home and it was your decision to make it that, just like it's my decision to choose Ireland as mine.

Your a great man to bring yourself to support an Irish team where not even one of the squad, nor the manager, nor the managers assistant, nor many of the supporters live in Ireland.

[Noelys Guitar]

Well that's something that I've never understood. You've chosen to live in Australia, that is your country of choice, you might have a romantic view of yourself being 100% Irish or whatever you like but you're not part of the community here, you don't live the day to day life or communicate with the people here all the time every day. I speak form experience knowing many Americans with distant Irish relatives who claim to be heavily Irish despite never actually being in the country. For some people being "Irish" is some abstract romance thing in their head that makes them special as its something unique to them compared to the people around them. To me, being Irish is choosing Ireland as your home, Australia is your home and it was your decision to make it that, just like it's my decision to choose Ireland as mine.

We should have a seperate Mein Kampf thread.

[Torn-Ado]

Well that's something that I've never understood. You've chosen to live in Australia, that is your country of choice, you might have a romantic view of yourself being 100% Irish or whatever you like but you're not part of the community here, you don't live the day to day life or communicate with the people here all the time every day. I speak form experience knowing many Americans with distant Irish relatives who claim to be heavily Irish despite never actually being in the country. For some people being "Irish" is some abstract romance thing in their head that makes them special as its something unique to them compared to the people around them. To me, being Irish is choosing Ireland as your home, Australia is your home and it was your decision to make it that, just like it's my decision to choose Ireland as mine.

I think I'll dump my Swedish missus and move back home so I can be Irish again.

Utter utter sh!te.

[DonnyG]

Well that's something that I've never understood. You've chosen to live in Australia, that is your country of choice, you might have a romantic view of yourself being 100% Irish or whatever you like but you're not part of the community here, you don't live the day to day life or communicate with the people here all the time every day. I speak form experience knowing many Americans with distant Irish relatives who claim to be heavily Irish despite never actually being in the country. For some people being "Irish" is some abstract romance thing in their head that makes them special as its something unique to them compared to the people around them. To me, being Irish is choosing Ireland as your home, Australia is your home and it was your decision to make it that, just like it's my decision to choose Ireland as mine.

WTF mate. Are you serious? I was born and raised in County Roscommon and was 30 when I moved to Australia, I have an Irish passport and my whole family is Irish - yet I'm not really Irish because I live in Australia. So by your reckoning a recent immigrant to Ireland is more Irish than me because they have chosen to live in Ireland?

It’s a big world out there you know and Irish people have travelled the world throughout history – doesn’t make us any less Irish

Be careful you don't get a nosebleed so far up there on your (really REALLY GREEN) pedestal.