Have they now breached some great ethical barrier...
Liam Toland in the Irish Times:
"Leinster broke the laws to their advantage, deserving credit for same."
Discuss.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugb...1579746?page=2
Have they now breached some great ethical barrier...
I noticed that Munster couldn't sell out their big Heineken Cup game v Gloucster a couple of weeks back, or at least there were still tickets available on the day. This would have been unthinkable a couple of years back. I wonder how much of it is down to the Celtic Tiger crash and how much of it is down to a rapidly decreasing bandwagon? Presumably a combination of both but I've a feeling the Munster phenomenon may gradually fade into a passing interest or less for the majority. That said, I'm not too well up on the percentages of hardcore fans v bandwagoners.
I think it's just price sensitivity + relative lack of success in recent years, plus the fact Gloucester announced in advance they'd be sending a Mickey Mouse side.
I think there's dissatisfaction with the way Munster play too.
I have to say I'm intrigued by the whole H Cup scenario. I think we are seeing what many of us predicted: as rugby becomes more professional the same fault lines evident in football are also appearing. Player behaviour and coach behaviour are deteriorating. Benefactor owners are affecting competitive balance and financial stability. Thornley wrote a piece recently about how the French clubs will eat themselves but not before they eat everyone else first. Players follow the money, end of story. This romantic idea of Irish players staying at home because they love the place is rubbished now with the end of the tax break. Clubs everywhere are loss making and are entering a financial arms race for success and for players. Clubs are making a power grab from the unions and the unions are competing with each other on behalf of their clubs. Self interest is beginning to rule on all fronts. International rugby union is losing its lustre to a degree, and some clubs are doing their best to ensure this continues.
I think the IRB has been asleep at the wheel. All of the above has been evident in football since big TV money and Bosman. Almost everyone agrees that some form of FFP is warranted but is unfortunately at least a decade too late in football. UEFA fended off clubs' quest for a self-administered super league by making concessions early and by giving clubs greater say in UEFA's governance. But the IRB (or whoever is supposed to be overseeing the game in Europe at least) should have seen the need for action before now. I don't follow it all closely enough and have only recently been aware of the various tensions, the expiry of the H Cup arrangements, the state of club and franchise finances and the extent of financial clout in France. But the rugby authorities must have seen all this and yet they still stood idly by and at best are in reactive mode.
My rugby mates all agree and funnily enough, because of this I'm much more at peace with rugby than I have been for a few years. I think their cosy little world is falling apart a little and some humility is returning.
I said ages back in this thread that I felt there was a Celtic Tiger era sense of self satisfaction in rugby circles in the last few years. I think it's all a bit more objective now and I think that's a good thing. Professional sport is a dirty business and a financially unstable business, idoesn't matter what the sport is.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 01/11/2013 at 3:16 PM.
Good post Stutts, only wish I cared more. But I don't.
And Sean, Connacht are in the Heineken aren't they...
Charlie, is there any broad acceptance at home that rugby is becoming as riddled with self interest as football and that maybe the moral high ground is less elevated than before?
I'm all on for people preferring one sport over another but I've never bought into the notion that any sport is fundamentally more honourable than the other.
I don't really know to be honest. I think the cockiness has given way to a bit more realism over the past year and people are beginning to see that the likes of Boudjellal and Wray are every bit as ruthless as their soccer counterparts, but in this country I think the success of the provinces has allowed many in the game to evade any sort of serious examination.
I do tire of this "rugby is turning into soccer" spiel. I like the way referees get more respect in rugby, but the moral highground becomes tiresome, especially when you have the odd player losing an eye.
Irish rugby is at it's lowest point for quite some time — 10 years at least. Munster have been in decline for a couple of seasons. Their fans also got screwed over the issuing of season tickets (can't remember exact details but the issue was along the lines of having to buy two season tickets, one for Cork and one for Limerick, where before you could buy one ticket to cover both). Those things combined have impacted their attendance massively. Ireland dropped to their lowest level in a long time when they lost to both Scotland and Italy in the last 6 Nations. There's still a lot of question marks over Leinster's season, a couple of reasonable performances in the Heineken Cup aside, they've looked very poor in the league. Ulster are the only team in any kind of ascendancy and are probably the best provincial side at the moment.
At this stage, I think the bandwagoners have been weeded out, yet the number of spectators remains strong. Leinster continue to have an average attendance greater than the capacity of their stadium (around 19,000 thanks to a couple of games in the Aviva each season). Munster manage to average 15,000+ people per game despite form and ticketing issues, Ulster averaged 10,000 per game last season and have a brand new stadium this season. Connacht draw over 5,000 fans a game despite being rooted to the foot of the league. You're talking 45,000+ people on average attend a club rugby game in Ireland, 15 times a year. The national team probably bring in another 45,000 people five or six times a year (based on 3 autumn internationals and two to three home 6 Nations games).
I think rugby is still in a very strong position relative to football in this country.
Everyone's in a strong position relative to football!
But the IRFU has just had to borrow 26 million and am I right in thinking Leinster has debts of around 20million? What is the financial position of the other provinces?
They didn't have to borrow the money - it's just a quirk in the way the IRFU operates that they provide a lot of up-front cash to the provincial unions and clubs. They're borrowing against future ticket sales (I know, nothing's certain) because 10-year ticket sales are more or less dead.
Leinster have a legacy debt of something like €8 million for the Donnybrook development but their finances are stable. Munster are in a worse position as far as I know and still have something like €5m owed to the IRFU they had to borrow a couple of years back.
It was always more of a sure thing though Tets for the rugby, and there are a handful of countries to go to for a Rugby Coach.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
If you look at the administration of rugby and football in this country, I would take Philip Browne and his team over Delaney and co. The IRFU overcame their slow acceptance of professional rugby to build a successful model, and while it faces many hurdles presently, Browne's limited comments on these hurdles were honest, yet left you feeling confident that the IRFU know what they are doing. Why do I not feel the same way when Delaney and Co make statements?
"limited" is the key word there gastric. Browne has time to prepare statements and responses, whereas Delaney is constantly in the public eye.
He wasn't questioned publicly after the last six nations, hasn't had to answer questions about underage progress, stadiums (Sports ground in Galway or Musgrave Park) player salaries, management salaries, players leaving the country, etc.
Dogs on the street seem to know what Delaney is earning, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw Browne in front of a camera.
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