Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[Stuttgart88]

I had to do some research into all this last year.

The Irish Sports Monitor published by the Irish Sports Council and ESRI are the best we can get for participation, volunteering, attendance etc. You can find them online - just google it.

I had to ask for TV viewing figures directly from the agency that provides the research for RTE. It only covers 2008 and 2009. I posted the results earlier in this thread, but unfortunately it was sent to me in s'sheet format so I just posted the summaries. It's all much of a muchness really. Big GAA, soccer & rugby events all get good figures, less big events don't. The soccer numbers stacked up well versus rugby in 2009. Peak soccer was higher, average soccer was lower but I think it's fair to say Grand Slam expectations from the start would haver bolstered rugby's figures whereas games against Georgia, Cyrprus & Montenegro didn't do the soccer averages any good. That said, Italy v Ireland in the rugby wasn't great.

Figures given to me directly from the FAI:

450,000 regular participants
3,000 clubs
96 leagues
Strong growth in female participation, but this still has a good way to go.

[Jinxy]

Stuttgart do you know how they defined 'participation'?
I'm involved in research myself so I'm always keen to read the fine print in these things.

[paul_oshea]

I had to do some research into all this last year.

The Irish Sports Monitor published by the Irish Sports Council and ESRI backs up GS's participation claims. Unfortunately 2007 & 2008 I think are the most up-to-date. You can find them online.

I had to ask for TV viewing figures directly from the agency that provides the research for RTE. Again, it only goes back 2 years. I posted the results earlier in this thread, but unfortunately it was sent in s'sheet format so I just posted the summaries.

Figures given to me directly from the FAI:

450,000 regular participants
3,000 clubs
96 leagues
Strong growth in female participation, but this still has a good way to go.

Including men and women there are definitely more participants in Gaelic(camogie/hurling/gaelic football/wootball) than soccer.

[gspain]

The eSRI study mentioned by Stutts is the most recent and most referenced.

The first study I recall was in 1986 announced as Jack Charlton was becoming Irish manager. In fairness then it was greatly skewed by Dublin (i.e. GAA was stronger in the rest of the country) however since then the gap has got wider - off the top of my head it was 13% for football and 8% for gaelic.

Note these are figures for the Republic of Ireland. The GAA claim to be the biggest sporting organisation as they combine their 2 sports and take the whole island.

Even without researching the studys just take a look at the number of leagues and clubs throughout the country. The star or the Herald have excellent supplements.

Re the tv viewing figures I use www.medialive2.com or you can search here on foot.ie for the figures which have been produced before. Rememebr also that the football matches are also on Sky (in HD) or the British channels whereas the GAA matches are typically only on RTE. Furthermore there is far more of a culture of going to the pub to watch a big football match than there is in the GAA.

The GAA is miles behind football in terms of participation and interest although the interest is in Liverpool and Man Utd and the national team. That is a fact and the studies bear that out no matter what you think.

[gspain]

Stuttgart do you know how they defined 'participation'?
I'm involved in research myself so I'm always keen to read the fine print in these things.

registered players eg playing for a club whether it be St. Kevins Boys, Ballyboden St Endas or Blackrock.

it doesn't cover things like astro parks, work leagues etc

[Stuttgart88]

I think GAA wins on most counts. Volunteering, attendance, participation. It helps that 2 very different sports are counted as GAA though! Soccer stacks up very well and beats rugby by a mile. Soccer & GAA participation & attendance fell. ESRI says this is definitely recession-linked. Overall soccer attendance was second only to gaelic football and was higher than hurling. Rugby participation grew, but still to a relatively small leve vs. GAA and soccer.

I'm too lazy to go throgh it with a fine-toothed comb but

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publica...BKMNEXT155.pdf

p29 & 30 are probably most of interest.

[Jinxy]

The eSRI study mentioned by Stutts is the most recent and most referenced.

The first study I recall was in 1986 announced as Jack Charlton was becoming Irish manager. In fairness then it was greatly skewed by Dublin (i.e. GAA was stronger in the rest of the country) however since then the gap has got wider - off the top of my head it was 13% for football and 8% for gaelic.

Note these are figures for the Republic of Ireland. The GAA claim to be the biggest sporting organisation as they combine their 2 sports and take the whole island.

Even without researching the studys just take a look at the number of leagues and clubs throughout the country. The star or the Herald have excellent supplements.

Re the tv viewing figures I use www.medialive2.com or you can search here on foot.ie for the figures which have been produced before. Rememebr also that the football matches are also on Sky (in HD) or the British channels whereas the GAA matches are typically only on RTE. Furthermore there is far more of a culture of going to the pub to watch a big football match than there is in the GAA.

The GAA is miles behind football in terms of participation and interest although the interest is in Liverpool and Man Utd and the national team. That is a fact and the studies bear that out no matter what you think.

You see it's hard to take you seriously when you throw out a comment like that because it's not based on facts, just a personal desire for this to be the case.

[Stuttgart88]

Ballpark Figures from 2007, ISC & ESRI. I think it's fair to say that this is a bit out of date.

The attendance figures are not consistent with the figures in the ISM linked above, unless GAA has fallen, soccer risen.

[Stuttgart88]

Jinxy, I think GS has a point to some extent: I'd love to see a poll: who is more popular in Ireland, Man United or Leinster? Man United and Leinster / Munster combined?

Whatever about the FAI and LOI's self-inflicted wounds it is simply not possible to have the standard of football played regularly in Ireland that would attracts tens of thousands of spectators regularly. The wage bills required would be unaffordable.

As I mentioned before, the bottom of the football pyramid is very strong, but international pressures outside of our control mean that the middle and top of the pyramid are in poorer shape. I'm sure more can be done to make the underage-to-senior / junior-intermediate-senior progression more seemless, but even if rectified the wage level required by domestic football to have a spectacle that can compete with Magners League rugby is impossible.

The only "free market" solution would be if we had a large franchise team competing in a European-wide super league, like the G-14 used to threaten a decade ago. Let's see how well that'd go down, if it wasn't a pipe dream in the first place!

I neither know nor care whether soccer is higher or lower than GAA. I do know that at "grass roots" it is a mile more popular than rugby, but even that isn't a great concern.

My biggest concern is that soccer doesn't get a fair crack of the whip in the press. Comparing IRL v ENG in rugby to IRL v Macedonia in soccer is ridiculous. Ignoring Shane Long, Seamus Coleman & Jon Walters at the expense of creating hysteria over Stephen Ireland, James McCarthy and Robbie "I'm going to walk out on Ireland of not picked" Keane is what gets my goat. It gives ill-informed punters a stick to beat soccer with. That "stick" has been taken up by the many rugby fans I know.

Sure, some footy players are scumbags, but an Irish rugby guy gouging another Irish guy's eye in a European semi-final is pretty scummy too.

Eamon Sweeney's view linked above is much more accurate and balanced.

Ireland needs all 3 big team codes to be thriving in my opinion. I want it to happen and there's room for it to happen.

[Jinxy]

I suppose we could argue the toss endlessly over what defines 'popularity'.
Look at the most popular programmes on TV.
Soap operas and reality song contests.
Rugby has a profile completely disproportionate to it's profile nationwide in my opinion.
The media have taken the only group of professional sportsmen we have in this country and turned them into celebrities.
You can't open a paper without seeing some rugby lad and his model girlfriend out on the town.
In my opinion this aspirational lifestyle is what feeds much of rugbys popularity.
It's a sport for movers and shakers.
The guys that come over from England, France, Italy and Scotland are largely from the same social strata as the rugby fans here.
The captains of industry in this country, be it the media, banking, law or whatever are generally ex-rugby school types.
Look at the price of corporate hospitality tickets in rugby.
People spend crazy money for a bit of grub and some hackneyed anecdotes from some washed-up international.
Wales is different as it can lay claim to being the only country (in Europe anyway) where rugby is the sport of the working classes.
Advertisers love these folks that are attracted to the rugby scene as they are the ones who buy stuff.
Hence sponsorship/advertising money pours in and we're bombarded with 'This is rugby country' ads on TV and billboards.
It inflates the perception that this is truly the sport of the people in Ireland.
Throw in some lad with a vaguely culchie-ish accent (although it's always more gentleman farmer than rural publican) talking about 'pride', 'passion' etc. and people start to go "Yeah, I can really relate to these guys that went to fee-paying schools and have model girlfriends and lucrative endorsement deals. They're just like me. Not like those sullen, petulant millionaires that play for the soccer team'.
But it's one thing for somebody to think that, it's another thing altogether for them to go out and join a rugby club.
Most of them wouldn't know where the nearest one was.
Rugbys relative success is down to its packaging more than its product.
I can only speak for myself but on the ground in reality I just don't see this massive upsurge in rugby popularity.
I think it can only ever get so far in terms of participation and like I said before, adult playing numbers are actually falling.
That's the downside to glamourising the lifestyle of professional rugby players.
When kids leave school and realise they're never going to hit that level, they just jack it in altogether.
And for all the animosity towards the GAA you often see here, I've never heard any GAA man I know coming out with the level of anti-soccer bile I regularly here from my rugby pals.
Don't believe the hype.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/102547.html

[Stuttgart88]

Stuttgart do you know how they defined 'participation'?
I'm involved in research myself so I'm always keen to read the fine print in these things.

I think it's "someone aged 16 or over who has played sport (other than walking) for 20 minutes or more in the last 7 days".

Defined in here somewhere.

[elroy]

And for all the animosity towards the GAA you often see here, I've never heard any GAA man I know coming out with the level of anti-soccer bile I regularly here from my rugby pals.
Don't believe the hype.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/102547.html

Jinxy I think you are been a bit sensitive if you think there is much animosity here towards the gaa, the references to it on this site and relatively few and far between. However you go to sites like anfearrua or premierview and I guarantee on an almost daily basis there is soccer threads and each threads will have a certain numbers of posts from people with a strong anti/dislike of soccer.

Figures have been produced here on numerous occasions, the Irish soccer team has pulled in the highest viewership figures on annual basis for a long time with a few exceptions. I think out of the last ten years, it has been no 1 sporting event 7 times. And even so in the grand slam winning year for rugby.

On a general level I think interest in soccer in Ireland is more widespread and less cyclical. Unfortunately the majority of this interest is focused on football elsewhere as opposed to Irish based. GAA hits its peak in the summer, no doubt and usually is the no 1 sport during these months. But there are areas of the country where hurling in particular barely registers. I recall been in Sligo/Leitrim area the day of an All Ireland hurling final not that long ago and to find a pub with the match on was quite difficult.

On a participation level, I think more people play soccer generally. But in actual registered numbers, well then I would fancy the gaa wins out. Football leagues are very strong in rural areas but far less organised and developed in rural areas. This is where the gaa are super strong, in the rural areas, strong underage structures, strong clubs in the commmunity etc. On a general level, football does not have this (there are exceptions obviously).

Rugby is strange one. Participation levels, as in registered players are low compared to the other main sports. However it does attract quite a following these days. The IRFU are the leading light in advertising and marketing and developing the game in recent years. However, the nature of their game assists them in comparison to football.....significantly less global competition and a much lower cost/wage base are two major differences.

All in all there is certainly room for all sports in this country, as most of us have a strong interest/participation in one sport but will follow/attend the others as well.

[paul_oshea]

Jinxy, I think GS has a point to some extent: I'd love to see a poll: who is more popular in Ireland, Man United or Leinster? Man United and Leinster / Munster combined?

Whatever about the FAI and LOI's self-inflicted wounds it is simply not possible to have the standard of football played regularly in Ireland that would attracts tens of thousands of spectators regularly. The wage bills required would be unaffordable.

As I mentioned before, the bottom of the football pyramid is very strong, but international pressures outside of our control mean that the middle and top of the pyramid are in poorer shape. I'm sure more can be done to make the underage-to-senior / junior-intermediate-senior progression more seemless, but even if rectified the wage level required by domestic football to have a spectacle that can compete with Magners League rugby is impossible.

The only "free market" solution would be if we had a large franchise team competing in a European-wide super league, like the G-14 used to threaten a decade ago. Let's see how well that'd go down, if it wasn't a pipe dream in the first place!

I neither know nor care whether soccer is higher or lower than GAA. I do know that at "grass roots" it is a mile more popular than rugby, but even that isn't a great concern.

My biggest concern is that soccer doesn't get a fair crack of the whip in the press. Comparing IRL v ENG in rugby to IRL v Macedonia in soccer is ridiculous. Ignoring Shane Long, Seamus Coleman & Jon Walters at the expense of creating hysteria over Stephen Ireland, James McCarthy and Robbie "I'm going to walk out on Ireland of not picked" Keane is what gets my goat. It gives ill-informed punters a stick to beat soccer with. That "stick" has been taken up by the many rugby fans I know.

Sure, some footy players are scumbags, but an Irish rugby guy gouging another Irish guy's eye in a European semi-final is pretty scummy too.

Eamon Sweeney's view linked above is much more accurate and balanced.

Ireland needs all 3 big team codes to be thriving in my opinion. I want it to happen and there's room for it to happen.

great post.

[Jinxy]

I absolutely agree that there is room for all the big sports, I just think that the real popularity of rugby is wildly overstated.

[paul_oshea]

I suppose we could argue the toss endlessly over what defines 'popularity'.
Look at the most popular programmes on TV.
Soap operas and reality song contests.
Rugby has a profile completely disproportionate to it's profile nationwide in my opinion.
The media have taken the only group of professional sportsmen we have in this country and turned them into celebrities.
You can't open a paper without seeing some rugby lad and his model girlfriend out on the town.
In my opinion this aspirational lifestyle is what feeds much of rugbys popularity.
It's a sport for movers and shakers.
The guys that come over from England, France, Italy and Scotland are largely from the same social strata as the rugby fans here.
The captains of industry in this country, be it the media, banking, law or whatever are generally ex-rugby school types.
Look at the price of corporate hospitality tickets in rugby.
People spend crazy money for a bit of grub and some hackneyed anecdotes from some washed-up international.
Wales is different as it can lay claim to being the only country (in Europe anyway) where rugby is the sport of the working classes.
Advertisers love these folks that are attracted to the rugby scene as they are the ones who buy stuff.
Hence sponsorship/advertising money pours in and we're bombarded with 'This is rugby country' ads on TV and billboards.
It inflates the perception that this is truly the sport of the people in Ireland.
Throw in some lad with a vaguely culchie-ish accent (although it's always more gentleman farmer than rural publican) talking about 'pride', 'passion' etc. and people start to go "Yeah, I can really relate to these guys that went to fee-paying schools and have model girlfriends and lucrative endorsement deals. They're just like me. Not like those sullen, petulant millionaires that play for the soccer team'.
But it's one thing for somebody to think that, it's another thing altogether for them to go out and join a rugby club.
Most of them wouldn't know where the nearest one was.
Rugbys relative success is down to its packaging more than its product.
I can only speak for myself but on the ground in reality I just don't see this massive upsurge in rugby popularity.
I think it can only ever get so far in terms of participation and like I said before, adult playing numbers are actually falling.
That's the downside to glamourising the lifestyle of professional rugby players.
When kids leave school and realise they're never going to hit that level, they just jack it in altogether.
And for all the animosity towards the GAA you often see here, I've never heard any GAA man I know coming out with the level of anti-soccer bile I regularly here from my rugby pals.
Don't believe the hype.

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/102547.html

Thats got a date of septeber 15th 2009, yet he mentions the world cup play off in a few weeks? It was 2 months away. What was he on about? that aside even

[Jinxy]

This is what I'm saying.
The rugby media and an awful lot of rugby people totally look down their nose at soccer yet they're never pulled up on it.

[peadar1987]

This is what I'm saying.
The rugby media and an awful lot of rugby people totally look down their nose at soccer yet they're never pulled up on it.

I brought a rugby-watching friend to the FAI Cup final last year at Lansdowne. She wasn't really interested in the game, just wanted to see the stadium cheaply. She asked me if the music they were playing before kick-off was to calm down the "animals" in the crowd, so they didn't cause trouble. Fair enough, she realised it was a stupid question immediately after saying it, but jeebus!

[jbyrne]

Quite clearly described in his posts.

not really. just the usual il-informed party line about the Irish rugby fans means, background etc

[paul_oshea]

I brought a rugby-watching friend to the FAI Cup final last year at Lansdowne. She wasn't really interested in the game, just wanted to see the stadium cheaply. She asked me if the music they were playing before kick-off was to calm down the "animals" in the crowd, so they didn't cause trouble. Fair enough, she realised it was a stupid question immediately after saying it, but jeebus!

I hope you got laid.

[gspain]

You see it's hard to take you seriously when you throw out a comment like that because it's not based on facts, just a personal desire for this to be the case.

It is a fact based on participation numbers and viewing figures. also based on personal experience (albeit living and working in Dublin which would have a much lower interest in GAA than say Kilkenny).

Beleive me I wish they weren't interested in Man Utd and Liverpool and followed Irish football teams but unfortunately they don't.

There is an average of 4,000 people from this country and every Man Utd home game.

Regarding rugby, growing up in Limerick there was never any anti football stuff from the rugby crowd (plenty from certain GAA elements). Thomond Park
was always available if required and many rugby fans came to our big games. In Dublin I do see a difference although it is more of a class thing and pretty much the same way certain Limerick clubs were treated in the past.