Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[Stuttgart88]

Fair do's mate. I don't think the TV / pub explanation is that likely. I'd have been surprised if the pubs weren't full that night in November. Just a hunch. Maybe some of the rugger heads watched the GS game on BBC instead? But then again, maybe some Irish watched the Paris game on SKY (less likely).

I actually think I've been pretty balanced in these exchanges. I may come across as anti-rugby, which couldn't be further from the truth, but I think it was Jinxy who said many rugger types look down their noses at soccer, and some in the press certainly do. I agree, and this is what I'm reacting to, and why I say that the perception does not fit the reality.

But if I may say, you seem to be a bit of a single-issue-candidate. You seem to enjoy starting threads like "Why have the public deserted our soccer team?", when the answer was probably provided by Eamon Sweeney - they have always been up and down - and others here.

[Dodge]

But might I suggest that one possible reason for the figures is this.
The France game was on a Wednesday, a school night. The vast vast majority of fans watched it at home so nearly every box in the country had it on.
The Rugby was on a Saturday. Nearly everyone watched it in the pub. So half the tv's in the country were switched off cos everyone was down the pub!

Fair Point?

That might be true if the Figures actually counted 'every' TV. They just have random samples so no figures are exact but they disregard 'switched off tvs'. So if half the TVs they count are switched on, and half of them are watching the rugby, they'll say that half the country is watching rugby (as opposed to the actual quarter that was).

(and personally speaking its easier for me to get out for a point on a Wednsday night than it is a Saturday/sunday afternoon, but thats another story)

[an_ceannaire]

Fair do's mate. I don't think the TV / pub explanation is that likely. I'd have been surprised if the pubs weren't full that night in November. Just a hunch. Maybe some of the rugger heads watched the GS game on BBC instead? But then again, maybe some Irish watched the Paris game on SKY (less likely).

I actually think I've been pretty balanced in these exchanges. I may come across as anti-rugby, which couldn't be further from the truth, but I think it was Jinxy who said many rugger types look down their noses at soccer, and some in the press certainly do. I agree, and this is what I'm reacting to, and why I say that the perception does not fit the reality.

But if I may say, you seem to be a bit of a single-issue-candidate. You seem to enjoy starting threads like "Why have the public deserted our soccer team?", when the answer was probably provided by Eamon Sweeney - they have always been up and down - and others here.

I cant deny it. To be honest I rarely post on things I approve of or if I agree with a point. I only ever seem to post on things I disagree with! Dont know why! Its like an episode of Liveline! If a fella came on and said "Rugby is deadly".....people who agree are not gonna wanna "talk to Joe" but people who disagree will be only to willing to come on and have a go! I think I am that soldier. Maybe daddy didnt hug me enough!

I think if I am brutally honest half the reason i do tend to wind some lads up on purpose is this. I am a soccer fanatic believe it or not! I and my family are steeped in soccer and particularly LOI and Junior Desmond League soccer. Gspain would back me up on that I would like to think.
So I came onto Foot.ie all those years back with the best of intentions. But as ye can tell I am also a reactionary eejit, and my all time Soccer Hero (apart from Al Finucane and Dennis Keehan) is Roy Keane. I have, nay, had serious Manlove issues with the boy!! Foot.ie for some reason was and still is completely disproportionatley to the national feel, anti Roy. This always annoyed me. I took the Saipan thing WAY too seriously! Only got over it recently! I hated everything Mick touched! I even bought a Sunderland jersey when the boy took the job! Yep I was one of those morons!!! God bless me!

Basically, I was never gonna be able to have a go at Mick in person, much as I wanted to! So this was the next best thing for me!! I loved it! Coming in here, winding fellas up. And it became a habit! To be honest, I stopped loving Roy and Hating Mick a long time ago. But my persona on here had reached a no going back stage with most lads! So I embraced it!

Confessions of a WUM eh!!!

I promise in future to behave myself and stop winding people up and i will be a good boy! Just give me a chance lads

Apologies for some atrocious spelling above lads! Am writing this in a rush before the boss gets back!!!!

[Stuttgart88]

I think it was Jinxy who said many rugger types look down their noses at soccer, and some in the press certainly do. I agree, and this is what I'm reacting to, and why I say that the perception does not fit the reality.

Actually, I'll give an example.

I attended a talk given by my old school alumnus (right word?) Conor O'Shea, at the Irish Club in London before Christmas. Conor is ex-Irish full back, ex-London Irish and currently Director of Rugby at Harlequins. It was full of D4 bankers, lawyers etc,. but that's no biggy. I was there because I'm a south Dublin white collar guy myself! Conor gave a good account of what it's like to live the dream of working in a sport you love, and the floor was opened and opinions were exchanged on the provinces etc. The IRFU and the provinces came out in very good light.

The "master of ceremonies", a self-satisfied D4 git, finished with a "you won't find any Saipans in our set up therefore" and laughed smugly to the crowd.

I wanted to scream. If the Irish rugby team turning up exhausted, underweight and allegedly in factions for a World Cup where they performed abysmally and only for the grace of God avoided defeat to Georgia, wasn't a Saipan, WTF was?

The organisation of Irish professional rugby around the provinces was well thought-out and executed, but the reality is that it was possible. A professional cross-border closed league with de facto franchise teams was possible in rugby. It just is not possible in soccer for many reasons discussed above. By all means applaud the rugby set-up, but the domestic soccer set up can not be knocked for being able to provide a product to compete with its English equivalent.

[Stuttgart88]

I promise in future to behave myself and stop winding people up and i will be a good boy! Just give me a chance lads

Apologies for some atrocious spelling above lads! Am writing this in a rush before the boss gets back!!!!

There's actually some good chat on here a lot of the time. You might even enjoy it.

Spelling and grammar are no biggies, but girly-style multiple exclamation marks are a bannable offence, unless you're a girl.

[an_ceannaire]

There's actually some good chat on here a lot of the time. You might even enjoy it.

Spelling and grammar are no biggies, but girly-style multiple exclamation marks are a bannable offence, unless you're a girl.

I will bare it in mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[paul_oshea]

Ive seen it all now stutts replying to himself How many pints this time?

I think im a bit like an ceannaire, ill argue here but argue against to other people of a different persuasion. I don't necessarily like arguing, but I don't like fitting in either, stutts never fitted in anywhere so he will sorta know what im talking about here. I suppose I like to play devils advocate and ensure people don't get carried away with themselves or start getting comfortable with a pariticular feeling/belief.

[paul_oshea]

There's actually some good chat on here a lot of the time. You might even enjoy it.

Spelling and grammar are no biggies, but girly-style multiple exclamation marks are a bannable offence, unless you're a girl.

Surely bannable and girl go together better, than bannable and not girl.

[paul_oshea]

Actually, I'll give an example.

I attended a talk given by my old school alumnus (right word?) Conor O'Shea, at the Irish Club in London before Christmas. Conor is ex-Irish full back, ex-London Irish and currently Director of Rugby at Harlequins. It was full of D4 bankers, lawyers etc,. but that's no biggy. I was there because I'm a south Dublin white collar guy myself! Conor gave a good account of what it's like to live the dream of working in a sport you love, and the floor was opened and opinions were exchanged on the provinces etc. The IRFU and the provinces came out in very good light.

The "master of ceremonies", a self-satisfied D4 git, finished with a "you won't find any Saipans in our set up therefore" and laughed smugly to the crowd.

I wanted to scream. If the Irish rugby team turning up exhausted, underweight and allegedly in factions for a World Cup where they performed abysmally and only for the grace of God avoided defeat to Georgia, wasn't a Saipan, WTF was?

The organisation of Irish professional rugby around the provinces was well thought-out and executed, but the reality is that it was possible. A professional cross-border closed league with de facto franchise teams was possible in rugby. It just is not possible in soccer for many reasons discussed above. By all means applaud the rugby set-up, but the domestic soccer set up can not be knocked for being able to provide a product to compete with its English equivalent.

Please tell me you wanted to shout and not scream? Especially after what you just said to an ceannaire.

Btw Ill never ever listen to anything COS(COK, why wasn't his name kane/keane or something) ever has to say, simply for that attitude he had that time he mis hit a clearance out straight into the 22 against England and didn't even care.

Stutts I hope like me you stood up for your principles, like the time I challenged Lenihan about US troops going out on the tear in shannon, even if he smugly made me look like an eejit...don't tell me you just crawled up into a ball kept schtum and then when you got home gave out to the wife and started an argument for her having moved your paper from your armchair to the couch.

Btw I never knew you and an_ceannaire were mates.

[an_ceannaire]

I will give up arguing for the rest of Lent so Stutts/POS

[Stuttgart88]

Ceannaire i can admit it. I was giving reasons for it. Some just look to try and deflect and deny not all though. .

And I'm his new BFF? "please an_caeannaire, I believe you, it's all the others who don't agree"

Point taken about the screaming though.

[gspain]

My only anecdote of Limerick is that my mate who lives minutes away from Thomond says that there is far more organised schoolboy soccer participation than rugby. I've no idea whether he's right or wrong, but he is certainly not biased, being an ex-player and huge fan of both sports, and his family being founders of Wexford Wanderers RFC.

an_ceannaire, is there still no acknowledgment that you were wildly wrong about the Paris versus Grand Slam viewing figures on RTE? Or do you just wait until your discredited "facts" become forgotten before reverting with more?

I have to say what Dodge says about the A-I finals on TV surprised me - although I used to live across the road from the Merrion Inn and watched EPL & SPL football there regularly, always to a full house. They never ever had the GAA on in the 1990s. But whether that's accurate or not is not the big issue here. The rest of Dodge's post was accurate and echoed what I have been saying: participation numbers of soccer are huge and the big English football teams are more popular than the big rugby franchises.

In fact I'd love to know how many Irish people a week travel to the UK to watch English or Scottish football, even now. Hundreds? Thousands? How many did up until 2007?

I don't have a source but I recall a figure of 4,000 (not the same 4,000 every week obviously) people from the Republic of Ireland at each Man Utd home game. I know of quite a few Man Utd season ticket holders here. This was pre recession though.

Liverpool would probably have something relatively similiar taking into account the capacity of Anfield. Much much smaller for any other club though.

Football is very strong in many parts of Limerick city. There are also huge hurling strongholds ringed around the city but I would think rugby is number 1. I haven't seen any figures though and am out of touch with the junior and schoolboy scene in football or indeed in rugby.

[geysir]

This survey clearly shows that football is a much bigger participation sport. I think it is obvious to even the most diehard Airtricity League fan that the vast majority of football fans in this country support a British team.

Have you conceded that you were incorrect about the definition of participation that the ESRI use in their survey. That participation includes a casual interpretation of sporting activity.

[dahamsta]

geysir, that's enough. Drop it.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't have a source but I recall a figure of 4,000 (not the same 4,000 every week obviously) people from the Republic of Ireland at each Man Utd home game. I know of quite a few Man Utd season ticket holders here. This was pre recession though.

Liverpool would probably have something relatively similiar taking into account the capacity of Anfield. Much much smaller for any other club though.

Football is very strong in many parts of Limerick city. There are also huge hurling strongholds ringed around the city but I would think rugby is number 1. I haven't seen any figures though and am out of touch with the junior and schoolboy scene in football or indeed in rugby.

4,000 for Man U alone? Wow. Much higher than I expected if true.

[geysir]

Geysir,

I thought the Ballpark Figures report contradicted some of the Irish Sports Monitor

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publica...BKMNEXT155.pdf

Of interest to me were Figures 5.2 (playing %), 5.3 (playing % male), 6.1 (volunteers) and 6.3 (attendance). When gaelic football and hurling are separate, soccer looks better. But the GAA attendance numbers mentioned in Ballpark Figures (and quoted above) absolutely hammer soccer, whereas in the ISM soccer is ahead of hurling but behind gaelic football. Maybe the definitions are different in each report.

You have to understand the definitions - the modalities used in each survey before you can begin to understand the importance of the figures.
The biggest change in the last 30 years is kids play a greater variety of sports in schools and they receive training in those sports. And surveys that follow and record that activity into their later years and weight the level of participation into accurate sub sections, is the type of meaty research that sports depts/planning can use.
One stunning stat that jumps out is from figure 5.4 , the low level of female participation in soccer. The reason why women's football is strong in Scandanavian countries is that it's considered normal to fund female participation in a sport.

[Jinxy]

I’m speaking from experience. Can’t speak for all areas obviously, but I’m happy to stand by the claim. In particular I’d say in tallaght that the ONLY place to show the All Ireland hurling final in Tallaght would be Thomas Davis’ clubhouse. I know about 6/7 regular GAA attendees. Even these wouldn’t suggest Hurling has a national appeal 9as can be witnessed by the 25,000 who attend the Leinster hurling final last year)

We get that you can't stand the GAA but you are coming across as being a bit mental.

[gspain]

4,000 for Man U alone? Wow. Much higher than I expected if true.

Whartons run several buses for every home Man Utd game. I know someone who uses them a lot counted 18 buses when I spoke to them after a trip a couple of years back. Sounds like hell to me.

http://www.whartonstravel.com/

Flights to liverpool, manchester obviously full but also Leeds, Birmingham etc.

I suspect the number is down a bit given the economic situation.

I'd never heard of Whartons and never noticed any of their adverts.

No doubt some pedant will pick me up the next time I use the term "barstooler" though.

[Stuttgart88]

You have to understand the definitions - the modalities used in each survey before you can begin to understand the importance of the figures.
The biggest change in the last 30 years is kids play a greater variety of sports in schools and they receive training in those sports. And surveys that follow and record that activity into their later years and weight the level of participation into accurate sub sections, is the type of meaty research that sports depts/planning can use.
One stunning stat that jumps out is from figure 5.4 , the low level of female participation in soccer. The reason why women's football is strong in Scandanavian countries is that it's considered normal to fund female participation in a sport.

Thanks.

1 point & 1 question (well, series of questions):

When I was collating facts & figures last year the FAI admitted that female particiaption was low but that they were putting the ball in motion to increase it. They clearly hoped that the Girls in Green would have an impact.

How much govt. funding does the FAI get? Are they funded via the Irish Sports Council? I was speaking with the CEO of Triathlon Ireland recently and they were a rarity this year, a NGB that got an increase in ISC funding. This was down to the facts that participation numbers were ballooning, and because TI meets all of the ISC's governance best-practice markers. In fact the TI CEO is an Australian sports governance expert. This prompted that age-old question: has the FAI's governance improved since you-know-when and the you-know-what report? Is its funding dependent on meeting the ISC's governance markers?

[peadar1987]

Whartons run several buses for every home Man Utd game. I know someone who uses them a lot counted 18 buses when I spoke to them after a trip a couple of years back. Sounds like hell to me.

http://www.whartonstravel.com/

Flights to liverpool, manchester obviously full but also Leeds, Birmingham etc.

I suspect the number is down a bit given the economic situation.

I'd never heard of Whartons and never noticed any of their adverts.

No doubt some pedant will pick me up the next time I use the term "barstooler" though.

I'd say that with Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Celtic, as well as numerous clubs with smaller Irish followings, Leeds, Newcastle, Villa, Everton, Spurs, Man City, etc., there are probably 15,000-20,000 travelling over each week. It's a disgrace when there are maybe 6,000 or 7,000 in total at league of Ireland games each week.