Where would a victory against the French rank?

**Stuttgart88** · 05/11/2009, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

Hate to rain on the parade but we have qualified for 4 major finals already by beating teams ranked far higher than us.

As Jimmy Hill so eloquently put it England were very lucky to draw us in Euro88 as there were 7 strong teams in the competition and a weak Eire. We also beat an Italian team in 94 that went on to lose the final on penalties.

I disagree GS: when we beat those teams they had opportunities to recover. England didn't take theirs, Italy did.

This is effectively a specially-staged final - the winner takes all, loser goes home. We've only ever won one knock-out tie* - Romania - and even the Dutch game in Lansdowne was a game we could afford to draw.

Nor do I agree with the relevance of the country "standing still". The number of people watching doesn't determine the scale of the achievement. If we qualified and drew NZ there may be more watching that game in SA, but beating France over 2 legs where there is no comeback would be remarkable.

*edit: Iran also, but that isn't the same as France.

**OwlsFan** · 06/11/2009, 7:30 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

This would be the best, by a distance, in my opinion.

Well, I am not sure about that. In the qualifications for the WC 2004, we drew away to Holland and beat them in that never to be forgotten game at home with Jason scoring the winner. That Dutch team was a class ahead of this French team and while that Irish team was stronger than our current team I don't think it would be correct to say that it would be the best "by some distance".

Just looking at a "Cuisine de France" van outside the window as I type this

. A good or bad omen? I suppose we eat the stuff so perhaps good!

**Wolfie** · 06/11/2009, 12:10 PM

Why does there have to be an absolute most historic win??

They are all brilliant in their own right. They stand equally alongside each other as historic!!

**geysir** · 06/11/2009, 12:58 PM

It would be nice to have this discussion in 2 weeks time.

**youngirish** · 06/11/2009, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

Hate to rain on the parade but we have qualified for 4 major finals already by beating teams ranked far higher than us.

Although beating France would be very very sweet and a real kick in the teeth to messrs Blatter & Platini not to mind adidas and French tv it would not rank with results in major finals such as wins over England, Italy & Romania.

As Jimmy Hill so eloquently put it England were very lucky to draw us in Euro88 as there were 7 strong teams in the competition and a weak Eire. We also beat an Italian team in 94 that went on to lose the final on penalties.

The whole country stopped for games like Romania and Italy too. While I imagine viewing figures would be massive (assuming it is on RTE) on the 18th I don't think the country will be brought to a standstill even if we win.

I'd love to see the itv pundits talking about Ireland just before we beat them in Stuttgart. I remember they were unfairly dismissive of us and their arrogance made the result all the more sweet. Think Brian Clough was on the panel but was only 11 so can't remember exactly. Anyone got any clips?

**Wolfie** · 06/11/2009, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by youngirish

I'd love to see the itv pundits talking about Ireland just before we beat them in Stuttgart. I remember they were unfairly dismissive of us and their arrogance made the result all the more sweet. Think Brian Clough was on the panel but was only 11 so can't remember exactly. Anyone got any clips?

No clips but I distinctly remember Liam Brady putting manners on Clough at half time - even though I was 13 at the time.

Brady was interviewed outside the stadium by the studio panel and I remember Bob Wilson wrapping up the link to Brady by saying "Enjoy the second half, Liam."

Brady replied, "Dont worry - I will."

**DubJohn** · 06/11/2009, 1:31 PM

Remember, we have not had a big win against quality opposition since 01.

That is a long time, and we are overdue a big result.

Over two legs it will be very difficult. 0-0 at home would not be a bad result at all.

**Brendan 82** · 06/11/2009, 2:49 PM

From a footballing standpoint I think this would be the victory that I would be most proud of. It would be an incredible achievement. Imagine all the people from around the world next summer going..."when do France play?" "hey, why no Frenchies at this World Cup?" "Oh yeah thats right, the Irish knocked them out". I will love it!!!

**Stuttgart88** · 06/11/2009, 2:59 PM

I think Brian Clough was older than 11 at the time.

OF, the Dutch team we drew 2-2 with in Amserdam was a patched up team, no? Even still, I think the current French team is better than that Dutch team - who lived on reputation.

**geysir** · 06/11/2009, 3:01 PM

We are running on the fumes of a reputation.

**DeLorean** · 06/11/2009, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Why does there have to be an absolute most historic win??

They are all brilliant in their own right. They stand equally alongside each other as historic!!

The OP was only wondering would it be our greatest achievement, in terms of the level of difficulty. It could be our greatest achievement and not necessarily the most historic. I think it's quite a good thread.

**paul_oshea** · 06/11/2009, 3:06 PM

I think its a great thread.

**Emmet7** · 06/11/2009, 3:08 PM

To be honest if we take them to penalties, that would be massive.

Beating them would be incredible and I would say would rank in the top 3 Irish results of all time, not just because of the opposition but more the circumstances of the Irish team, us having few world class players, missing players through injury, the fact that it's Trap's first term and the team is in a transition period.

What we have achieved already in this qualification is remarkable and all the players and management team should be proud of what they have done. I know the begrudgers will say Italy were a poor side but the fact is they had a world class goalie, a world class defence with Grosso, Cheilini, Zambrotto who is still a very tough defender, and so on, an excellent midfield with De Rossi, Pirlo and co, and forwards who aren't the worst in the world.

Drawing with Bulgaria was also a good achievement as was avoiding the usual bananna skin that is Cyprus and Georgia for that matter.

Even our draws in qualifying were on balance good results, against the Italians and Bulgarians. To be the only team to ever make Italy drop points in Bari was a great achievement as the fans are fanatical in Bari. At the end of the match it was Trap who came out admired by the Italian fans and media, not Lippi and that says something about the media and fans who are passionately biased towards Italian national teams.

Getting to qualifying matches was a good enough achievement. Actually qualifying would be a remarkable achievement and I think Trap would have to be given almost all the credit for that, because it's largely the same players as Stan and Kerr had although missing some better players and those previous teams didn't come near qualifying.

Even if we don't qualify, it's been a good campaign that everyone can be proud of.

**paul_oshea** · 06/11/2009, 3:10 PM

We didnt beat bulgaria!

**Emmet7** · 06/11/2009, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

We didnt beat bulgaria!

Yes I know, I just corrected that there. I was in a bit of a rush writing that post and don't know why I said that, but it's corrected now. Of course I know we drew home and away with them.

**paul_oshea** · 06/11/2009, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Emmet7

Yes I know, I just corrected that there. I was in a bit of a rush writing that post and don't know why I said that, but it's corrected now. Of course I know we drew home and away with them.

Ok, ill let you off this once(i assume you were only getting carried away with the excitement) only because the overall post was fair.

**geysir** · 06/11/2009, 3:28 PM

Some of you are running on fumes of a different kind.
I think you need to sit down and watch a few of our less noteworthy recent performances and get a bit grounded/real and depressed.

**Emmet7** · 06/11/2009, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Some of you are running on fumes of a different kind.
I think you need to sit down and watch a few of our less noteworthy recent performances and get a bit grounded/real and depressed.

From an article I have been reading right now.

“If I want to see a show, I go to the La Scala concert hall,” Trapattoni said, “I don’t go to the football stadium.”
The Italian philosophy dictates that one point — no matter how dreary for the spectators — is a pragmatic victory. The day after Ireland’s 1-1 draw with Bulgaria in Dublin in a European Group 8 on Saturday, Trapattoni told reporters in his emphatic but fractured English: “The objective is not to lose. This qualifying thing is draw, win. But no lose.”
His teams maintain possession of the ball, defend with vigor, avoid ostentation and danger. “The memory of beautiful football lasts for a while,” he said. “The result lasts forever.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/sp.../01soccer.html

So if you want to see a show go to La Scala or somewhere else. Trapattoni's job is not to entertain, it's to get us qualified. If you want someone to entertain, then we should have hired Bo-Bo the clown to manage the Irish soccer team.