Any system which assigns/supplies/provides multiple amounts of tickets to one individual facilitates (doesn't prevent) touting. The individual is then in control not the issuer. Tickets can be passed through a indefinite number of people all outside the control of the issuer.Originally Posted by Greenforever
Whilst I admire the FAI stance on this the fact that they are being reactive shows they know there is a problem. Much better to be proactive and implement a system similar to the one I have outlined earlier this evening which would help reduce touting greatly and also reduce this second market at face value which deprives the waiting list members of realistic expectations of joining the block booking.
Once again I'll say the FAI aren't interested as they get their money one way or the other, one fan is the same as the next.
Last edited by Bluetonic; 03/11/2009 at 8:26 PM.
disagree SJ for the reasons listed, you could be a BB in Drumcondra and a BB ticket could cost you £300 and no time off. Contrast that with practically any away trip. If home games were counted non BB would imediately be at a disadvantge. Aways games are the level playing field as the vast majority of fans will have to take a plane/ferry out of IReland/UK
Please back up your statements with FACTS
There are 30,000 plus BB tickets, can you find me even 30 for sale????
You have ignored the very reason they brought in the BB system in the first place.
Fair Play died Nov 18th 2009, Stade Francais.
The FACT that touts have had and will have tickets (for Lansdowne - lets forget about Croke Park) for sale which are neither away nor sponsor tickets proves it. Have you never seen a tout selling a ticket when we played in Lansdowne? I've unfortunately had to buy tickets from them. Do you at least understand the theory of what I'm saying?
Solved one problem, created another. Why not strive for a system which attempts to solve all problems? Considering these type of systems are implemented all through Western Europe I doubt even the FAI could fail at this.
You would have been a good consultant on the PPARS project with the shortsightedness your portraying at the moment.
Last edited by Bluetonic; 03/11/2009 at 8:36 PM.
And I suppose you've never seen a tout at any other ground in Western Europe except Lansdowne Road seeing as they have such great ticketing systems
Are you for real? There hasn`t been a game for the last 2 campaigns where you could "tout" a home ticket and make any money whatsoever, probably for France home game you could......if anything a tout would lose money over the last few years as they would of been left with a load of tickets for friendly games and qualifiers that there was no interest for e.g. georgia, cyprus x 2, montenegro, slovakia etc. and thats before I even talk about specific friendly games.
Are you for real?
If you took the time to read my posts you'd see I clearly stated that I'm talking about the block booking system pre and post Croke Park.
(Deep breaths)
The only big game of note at LR in recent times where I remember alot of tickets been sold by touts was the Czech Rep game. They were actually going for FV. I must admit that I did pay alot of money for a ticket to the French game a few years back, but in general saw very few touts for our games at LR.
In any system you will have touts but certainly the number is reduced under the BB system as tickets are for the most part sold to those who will use them. If tickets went on general sale this would def not be the case.
Post-Croke Park will be similar, will be no profit to be made touting tickets over a period of a campaign. Maybe I`m missing something but I didn`t think there was a significant problem with tickets been touted pre-croke park either. And if anyone does buy a touted ticket all you need to do is report to the FAI and they`ll cancel the BB.
No system will suit everybody(especially if you`re not on it) but the BB system is as good as you`ll get. Not sure what difference it would make spliting a BB of 5 into individual bookings, surely a tout would just put 5 different names on it and still get the tickets
There has been a vast reduction in touting, Old Trafford pre fan card to post fan card being one an example of one. Touting of course still exists. As long as there is a market for something people will strive to exploit that market.
What we should be aiming for here is refinement of the block booking system which is of course undoubtedly built on solid foundations. If there are ways in which is can be improved why would anyone not want to see these being implemented?
The fact that some people are also so heavily involved with the block booking system at this stage also doesn't really help with what should be a open analysis of it.
Sure it's not perfect but it's as good as you'll get. Marvelous. Would make a great motto for this country of ours.
I suggest reading the posts again, or just reading them.Not sure what difference it would make spliting a BB of 5 into individual bookings, surely a tout would just put 5 different names on it and still get the tickets
At this stage a summary is probably best.
Block bookers love the block booking system, waiting list members don't - the reasons are obvious. Current block booking system is simple for the FAI to implement, a new system whilst better for the fans and traceable for the FAI would be of no monetary benefit to the FAI as the end product is still the same - bums on seats.
The GAA - getting it right - http://seasonticket.gaa.ie/files/GAA...all%20Card.jpg
The topic of this thread is how to get more people onto the block booking system. A number of posters (myself included) have advocated some type of system whereby the FAI keeps closer control of who receives the tickets allocated to block bookers by registering who receives each ticket (or every pair of tickets perhaps) rather than some individuals receiving large allocations (anything above 2 is large imo) which they are free to do what they want with and distribute as they see fit.
If those people receiving the large allocations are distributing them legitimately at the moment to the same people each match then they should be able to, and should have no problem with imo, registering those individuals with the FAI who can then take over this task in future and keep an official and accurate record of who gets what and what they do with them. Such a record would help the FAI identify who's most deserving of tickets on an ongoing basis and allocate any that become available to those on the waiting list in a transparent and accountable manner which would eliminate the current confusion and let everyone know where they stand.
I have yet to hear a BB'er come up with a valid reason why they should be distributing tickets rather than the FAI as suggested above, and I would have thought they'd be grateful not to have to worry about the hassle. Unless of course some have ulterior motives?
I think it a little unfair to cut off a block booker if one of their tickets is touted. If you get four or five tickets and give it to a friend etc and they then sell it on for over face value, why should you suffer? Moreso, why should the other people who get tickets from you suffer too? Effectively, you are punishing everyone in the block booking for the sins of one person whose actions none of the others can control (especially the others who aren't the main man).
I wouldnt say I agree with the severe penalty suggested but this is a complete get out of jail card which is equally unacceptable in my eyes.
You are responsible for the 5 tickets. If you give it to a friend, its still your responsibility and if he in turn gives it to a tout, its still your responsibility. In my opinion at least.
With regards to the suggestion on another post that only away games would count towards the points system. Whilst I agree doing this attempts to make it a level playing field in terms of travelling from UK/Ireland to away games only are counted, what it does is completely ignore the commitment made by those who travel to the homes games from the UK and further afield. Personally, I would travel to all home games from the UK, in the past I would have travelled to all the away games also but this campaign and for the forseeable future that is likely to be down to 1 or 2 away games. Ignoring the time/expense/commitment I make for the home games would seem unfair - Though you could argue it is my choice to live in the UK I suppose.
Also - Attending home games is what supports the FAI (financially) away games do not. To ignore this wouldnt seem right? A bit like the WL's frustrations at not getting on the BB System how would that compare to my frustration at not being able to get an away ticket because I only travel to one away game per campaign but do attend all the home games?*
* Im speaking hypothetically - I wouldnt be in the least bit worried about travelling without a ticket and picking one up from various sources / at the location but in the interests of designing this perfect system these points would need to be considered.
Last edited by Junior; 03/11/2009 at 10:52 PM.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
Yeah but what about the other three people? They did nothing wrong and are being punished. Maybe you could be reduced by one ticket the first time it happens and if it happens again within say two years then you get cut off or else you have to present a really compelling defence. That kind of covers both in that it punishes repeat offenders but isn't unduly unfair. You are still relying on the people you give the tickets to (and people you sell onto at face value on sites like this!) not to sell on for over the odds however.
Agreed - I said I didnt agree with the severe penalty but that you do have to take responsibilty for where that ticket ends up, if you want to continue to receive it.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
You still have not given any proof that it is BB tickets that are being touted.
You have convinced yourself that this is the case and ignore all posts showing how it is not possible for a BB to make a profit by touting tickets.
Please educate me on these great systems used by other FAs throughout Western Europe, I assume you are relating to the super efficent Germans who through their system posted somewhere between 10 and 20,000 tickets to Ireland for the match in Stuttgart or is it the French who let us buy close to 30,000 tickets for the last Paris match
I hate to tell you there is no problem with the BB system, what is the problem is the waiting list is so long with no movement and surely that proves that the people on the BB list are genuine enough that they purchase their tickets for all matches regardless of the occassion.
As Ive said before very few tickets get into touts hands and you will find that a lot of these are probably from sponsors who give tickets to customers who then choose to cash in etc
Cheap shots about my shortsightedness show you have no way of baking up your posts so you choose to slag me off instead
Fair Play died Nov 18th 2009, Stade Francais.
I heard a couple of years back that the majority of tickets reported (and quite a few are) as being bought from touts turn out to be sponsor's tickets. The sponsors still get their tickets though.
touting of home tickets either on ebay or on the day is quite small imo as oppsoed to big concerts where tickets are sold direct to the public.
Bluetonic
An old post of yours agreeing with the bb scheme!
http://foot.ie/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=623561
I can fully understand your frustrations as you have been to a fair few away games by the look of your posts but at the same time you have found the ticket office to be fair with you according to your own posts
Fair Play died Nov 18th 2009, Stade Francais.
Large block bookings are generally held by clubs I would have thought. They would (quite reasonably) give tickets to people who put work into the club and not necessarily the same people every match. Outside of those I don't see what difference changing the name on one of someone's current two tickets would make.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
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