Well said Dynamo. I think they've probably started to put the systems in place if the way in which they handled applications for the Paris game is anything to go by (via an online form which captured all the relevant data including customer number).
If they do - they should get that one ticket.Originally Posted by gspain
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe it's a commodity to be passed on in the family. It's an FAI ticket you get to use for a time. No one has a "right" to go to games over other fans.
You could argue that once a person dies they shouldn't be allowed to pass on a bbing to their children but I wouldn't agree with that.
Ok- let's not do that but going forward new BB should be limited in number of ticket allocated.I certainly have sympathy for those on the WL. However I don''t think there is an easy solution and certainly not one that involves taking tickets from those who currently have them.
My solution, and I believe there is one, somewhere, is that if I have 4 tickets BB and give them to the same 4 mates, those 4 mates should be registered for those tickets even though I will take responsibility for paying, collecting distributing the tickets. If I decide to leave, my ticket goes to a WL person while the other 3 in my group decide who will look after their 3 tickets.
You could build fan communities easily enough - group tickets, separate groups, merge groups etc at the start of campaigns.
Ok it's an IT spend and cost but I think ultimately it will ensure more attenandance at games as people would find it easier to progress thru the WL and churn would be a little higher.
Equally it would make it easier to pin point people selling on their tickets and ending up with touts (a low number I'm sure) and if there was ever trouble all fans would be accountable.
Those of you leaning towards less structured systems and been on databases will no doubt hate this but I think it sounds great.
Last edited by dynamo kerry; 03/11/2009 at 4:04 PM.
Well said Dynamo. I think they've probably started to put the systems in place if the way in which they handled applications for the Paris game is anything to go by (via an online form which captured all the relevant data including customer number).
I think its only natural that the BB should be allowed to pass to their children if the BBer passes away. For example a son could be going with his father to games for 20 years, surely it would be very unfair that on the death of his father that the BB doesnt pass on to the son.
Yes because in one case I know because I provided the info. Idiot provided scans on request to prove he had the tickets. He was taken off the list. There have been other cases as well.
In another case they didn't eventhough I provided enough info to identify the person he was careful enough. I had home town, block and row number but not seat numbers. His mobile was not on file and I only had his first name. Same guy had sold rugby tickets over the odds as well in the past. Thought they should have dumped him but the decision was not enough information eventhough there was one block booker from the town with that first name with seats in the block and row I provided.
If you buy off ebay or from the touts over face value please send details to the Ticket office, FAI, Abbottstown Dublin 15. They do act.
I was actually wondering about that. My number is about 12,000 and i've had mine since about 1997.
I probably sound like an evil, mean £ecker but I just can't agree with this line of thinking.
to me the ticket isn't a family heirloom to be passed around. none of us own a seat in these situations. We merely earn the right to have first dibs on it.
I'm really trying not to be insenstive (probably failing).
some mechanism for him to apply for another one for his son maybe or brother should exist but not at the expense of waiting listers.
I see what you're saying though and I think you have a point worth considering but I don't think it saves the whole system from needing looked at and becoming more accountable.
I think its fair that the son gets to keep his ticket in that situation but he should only have one. Whether he gets one or two doesn't really matter though cos going to a game afterwards is only going to remind him of his dad.
I heard about someone who was a season ticket holder somewhere who used to go to games with his dad. When his dad passed away, he still went to the games and left his dad's seat free and didn't let anyone sit on it. I think it was only til the end of the season.
On a lighter note there was also the one (quite possibly an urban myth) about the man who had a season ticket at one of the English clubs and found the seat beside him empty every week until eventually someone turned up and sat in it at the Stephen's day match. When they got chatting it turned out the new guy's wife had bought him a season ticket at the start of the season but only gave it to him as his Christmas present!
I'd say he got her a divorce for Stephen's Day!On a lighter note there was also the one (quite possibly an urban myth) about the man who had a season ticket at one of the English clubs and found the seat beside him empty every week until eventually someone turned up and sat in it at the Stephen's day match. When they got chatting it turned out the new guy's wife had bought him a season ticket at the start of the season but only gave it to him as his Christmas present!
I heard about that alright. I thought it was quite funny, though the version I had also had another empty seat for the son. It would be an odd present alright and unlikely someone would waste that much money. Almost certainly an urban myth. The spare seat for the father one is much more likely as people grieve in different ways. I look after my block booking for myself, my bro, my dad and a friend and it would be very very difficult to sell one of their tickets if anything happened (God forbid).
no system is ideal but the BB system the FAI run is far better than any other in the country.
as a kid i went to the likes of brazil, bulgaria and luxemburg '87 where there was about 20k in attendance yet when it came to england 1990 in lansdowne i had to bunk off school and sleep on the pavement outside elverys only for lads to skip the queue and leave me without a ticket! i go to all home games and about 2 or 3 away per campaign. the BB system means that i will always get a ticket which is only correct.
on the other side i have attended all the home rugby matches (and many away) since 1985 by scrounging tickets from all kinds of sources. you can sometimes get tickets now through the IRFU supporters club (paying for membership) but more and more recently you are made feel privilaged on the odd occasion i am successful in the online scrambles that you have to go through.
the FAI system is not ideal but its far closer to ideal than most other systems
Yes the rugby system was one that I was referring to earlier. The gaa are pretty poor as well ie where have all the 80k people that turn up at an AI been earlier in the year, even for a semi?!? Although I know they introduced a season ticket last year where if condition were satisified i.e. attendance at games, a ticket was guaranteed for the final.
The rugby allocate tickets mainly through clubs who almost add their own charge to the FV. They also have 10 year tickets which have a WL that I understand barely moves at all.
The comparisons with other ticketing systems are insignificant and irrelevant.
Admin costs don't seem to be an issue to the FAI.
They already have the majority of block bookers and wait list members email addresses (since 2007) yet they continue to post invoices, letters of rejection, etc.., by standard mail and fail to embrace the technology which is already in place and would offer a considerable time and cost saving.
Dismissing the changing of a the system due to increase admin would be a wrong move. Any news system implemented could save time and money.
The FAI are years behind the pack with issuing of physical paper tickets. The implementation of a fan card (like the GAA now have) would not only allow the FAI to become nearly 100% ticketless but it would greatly reduce touting as people would be less likely to hand a fan card over to a stranger. A third party resale ticket solution, viagogo, could be used for block bookers to sell on tickets when they can't make the game with only existing waiting listers allowed to buy.
Away games should be allocated points, less glamorous games with travel being awkward on a midweek are awarded more points, high profile games an hour away on a Satruday are awarded less points. Application for away tickets is based on points accumulated over the last and current campaign.
The fact of the matter is the systems are out there which in the long run would save the FAI time and money and be of benefit to block bookers and waiting list members but the crux of the matter is the FAI are happy with the current system as they are guaranteed bums on seats and money in the bank.
Summary: The FAI aren't interested in being innovative.
Last edited by Bluetonic; 03/11/2009 at 6:12 PM.
Jbyrne - I don't want to see the block bookers punished for taking tickets. However the redistributing of tickets to those on the waiting list needs work. If you keep going to games you deserve a ticket. If you stop going - who should get it
a) a waiting lister who has taken tickets from the fai when they struggled to sell and has waited their turn
or
b) your mate who rarely goes to games but decides to take the ticket anyway
or
c) another waiting lister further back the queue who decides to jump ahead a bit..
which do you think is fairest?
I also think your exposure to other ticketing systems might be limited if you think the FAI bb system is a leader in it's field. Outside of Ireland it would be considered backward.
Bluetonic - great post mate
Quite a lot there reminds me of the english and scottish systems where your "loyalty" is measured and long terms fans get looked after while random fans have to wait their turn.[/
Last edited by dynamo kerry; 03/11/2009 at 6:19 PM.
My BB code is in the low 600s, and I also got tickets direct from the FAI prior to 88 and the sudden growth in popularity that success brings. Like JByrne I was at games in Lansdowne with less than 15,000 at them.
The BB scheme was brought in to STOP tickets getting into the hands of touts, which was very more prevalent when the majority of tickets were sold through clubs and shops incluing the Irish Travel Agency on Dolier St.
Anyone who has been going to games since the 70s will probably agree there are far less tickets in touts hands today compared to the late 80s and early 90s.
The BB system is extremely fair and could only be improved by each BB having to register every ticket holder and giving them their id card which would have to be used in conunction with their ticket for admission.
A points system for away games would be great to be introduced and could be done now using the travel details from the current campaign.
Fair Play died Nov 18th 2009, Stade Francais.
agree in principle disagree with detail , will post what I posted elsewhere
AWAY ALLOCATION SCHEME
Posted this on YBIG to generally favourble comments
Made this a separate thread as I think it deserves it and a few have thought it had merit.
It is not perfect but the Scots use something similar and the majority of them deem it fair.
1.Last 10 away games including away friendlies are taken into account
2. Each away game is allocated a point,those with the most points are allocated tickets down to where the number of tickets available is less than the number of people on the relevent points then a ballot will be undertaken
3.each request for tickets must be backed up by naming who the tickets are for
4. Random checks will be undertaken - in which case proof of travel for the number of recipients will be required - no proof of travel then points will revert to zero
5.FAI reserve the right to have ticket collection in the destination city - failure to collect tickets will result in points will revert to zero
I have not included home games for the following reasons
6. away travel is a more level playing field, the majorrity of fans needing flights/ferries outa Ireland or the UK
7. home games are not a level playing field eg the BB who lives in Drumcondra as opposed to the BB living in London either required days off or money spent attending
8. home games currently are and are likely to be more of a closed shop with little scope for movement
9.....I am not a BB
Last ten away games
Prague - Czech Rep
Cardiff - Wales
London - Columbia
Oslo - Norway
Mainz - Georgia
Podgorica - Montenegro
Bari - Italy
London - Nigeria
Sofia - Bulgaria
Nicosia - Cyprus
Based on the above i would have 3 points
Next game is france after which the france points are added and the Czech points removed
Last edited by Newryrep; 03/11/2009 at 7:10 PM.
Couldnt agree more, the block booking system is a great system. I do have sympathy for people who are still on the waiting list but unfortunately thats the way things are with supply and demand at the moment. Its the closest thing to a season ticket system that most top clubs run(although the BB is probably even more consistant then ST as we include friendly tickets)
Good idea on the away ticket idea NewryRep, however Id like home games to be taken into account as well, seems to me that a lot of peoples prioritys on the away trips are the drinking sessions instead of the matches.
Last edited by stickyjoe; 03/11/2009 at 7:43 PM.
The current block booking system facilitates touting. How can this be a great system?
Season tickets are for single tickets rather than groups of tickets and the BB system should be the same. This is the point being made.
Please back up this statement with proof
The block booking system was introduced to stop touting initially, just look at the number of tickets for sale by French people for the Paris game.
IF you ever find a block booking ticket on the black market report it to the ticket office and I guarantee action will be taken.
Fair Play died Nov 18th 2009, Stade Francais.
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