QuoteThat squad list seems to get worse with every announcement. Of course it would look 100 times better if Don Givens wasn't in charge.
http://breakingnews.ie/sport/soccer/eymhcwmheymh/
Squad Named
Shane Redmond
Stephen Henderson
Seamus Coleman
Callum Morris
Brendan Moloney
Lanre Oyebanjo
Darren Dennehy
Ian Bermingham
Cian Hughton
Seamus Conneely
James McCarthy
David Meyler
Stephen Gleeson
Owen Garvan
Alan Judge
Cillian Sheridan
James Collins
Jay O’Shea
Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/sport/soccer/...#ixzz0VQy9yXI9
That squad list seems to get worse with every announcement. Of course it would look 100 times better if Don Givens wasn't in charge.
LESS OF THE BULL NOW!
What players would you have in there and instead of whom?Originally Posted by rambler14
Not what I meant I just think that there is very little talent coming through.
LESS OF THE BULL NOW!
Ah right. Yeah, that certainly seems to be the case.
I know it's a controversial statement but the team can't seem to win a match or even attempt to get close to qualifying for a tournament.
Part of that problem lies with Don Givens who should have been sacked ages ago but the players in the U21 setup have really struggled in the last few years.
LESS OF THE BULL NOW!
An abundance of alternative players out there. Here’s an alternative team, with subs, who I reckon would give the selected panel a decent game. Stokes is included because he even if Trap hasn’t called him up for France, Givens won’t consider him.
James McKeown (Peterborough)
Kevin Long (Cork City)
Michael Spillane (Norwich City)
Gavin Gunning (Blackburn Rovers)
JJ O’Toole (Watford/ loan to Colchester)
Ian Daly (Aris Salonica, Greece)
Donal McDermott (Man City/ loan to Chesterfield)
Sean Scannell (Crystal Palace)
Keith Treacy (Blackburn Rovers/loan to Sheff Utd)
Kurtis Byrne (Hibs)
Anthony Stokes (Hibs)
Subs: Robert Bayly (Sporting Fingal), Graham Carey (Celtic), Jamie Devitt (Hull City/loan to Shewsbury), Terry Dixon (West Ham), Mark O’Toole (Galway Utd), James O’Brien (Bradford City).
Not saying that they’re all better than what’s chosen in current squad but surely the best players are not being picked.
Someone’s got to put the brakes on Don!
Thanks v good post.
I agree it's time for Don Givens to go. There doesn't seem to be any real mechanism in place that evaluates his job performance. The only job description Don Givens has from what I have understood is to develop players for the senior squad. If that's the case shouldn't his team mirror the formation and tactics of the senior team? If there an injury crisis situation where a U21 player needs to be called up, shouldn't Don Given have "developed" a player in the needed position ready to make the step-up? Is he doing that? -
I think the U21 manager should be somebody that is young, hungry, energetic and has the ambition to be the senior manager. And results should become pivotal in deciding if the U21 manager is doing a good job or not.
Those are potentially conflicting points. At youth level, player development is key and results should definitely take second place. Maybe under-21 is a little different and closer to senior level but really results shouldn't matter as much as player development. At underage level, an unnecessary focus on results leads to favouring players who are bigger and stronger than average in their age group at the expense of smaller potentially more skillful players who maybe haven't finished growing yet. Results orientated youth football produces players like Emile Heskey, Wayne Rooney and Steven Gerrard rather than the likes of Andres Iniesta, Lionel Messi and Xavi. English and Irish football doesn't produce as many small, technically gifted players as it does big, strong, fast and powerful players. I'm not saying it is necessarily a problem but I think in English and Irish youth football the balance is slightly wrong. That said, I think we are closer to having it right as we have more players (or historically, in general a greater percentage of players) in the Duff, Keane, Reid mould than the English do. Still, maybe at under 21 level results should play a bigger part, but an all encompassing top-to-bottom philosophy of how to play football (as they have at Barcelona) is fairly incompatible with results orientated football at the younger levels.I agree it's time for Don Givens to go. There doesn't seem to be any real mechanism in place that evaluates his job performance. The only job description Don Givens has from what I have understood is to develop players for the senior squad. If that's the case shouldn't his team mirror the formation and tactics of the senior team? If there an injury crisis situation where a U21 player needs to be called up, shouldn't Don Given have "developed" a player in the needed position ready to make the step-up? Is he doing that? -
I think the U21 manager should be somebody that is young, hungry, energetic and has the ambition to be the senior manager. And results should become pivotal in deciding if the U21 manager is doing a good job or not.
Meyler has been getting on the Sunderland bench for Premiership games. That's pretty good
Aren't Gunning, Scannell and Treacy usually in the squad? Are they injured?
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
Interesting points, SD, with which I broadly agree (though I would argue that both Rooney and Gerrard are as technically accomplished as Xavi or Iniesta, though not the phenomenal Messi).
Nonetheless, a progressive set-up within the national set-up can still go some way towards mitigating the "structural" weaknesses inherent in players and teams produced by club football.
From browsing this forum, it would appear that the ROI do not currently have such a set-up in place, with Givens copping for much/most of the blame. We had pretty much the same situation in NI until recently. Our equivalent to Givens was a joker called Roy Miller (U-21 boss and Coaching Director etc), who had all the badges and God-knows how many years in post, but was still utterly hopeless.
This situation was allowed to prevail, even when Lawrie Sanchez was in charge, since he (LS) wasn't bothered by anything further than the immediate future, and how he was going to get through that.
Whereas when Nigel Worthington was offered the job, he was apparently reluctant to do so until he was given assurances that he would be allowed to employ his own coaches etc, who would have responsibility throughout the age groups, for scouting and development etc. (One of his first acts was to shift Miller).
At the same time, the IFA was not prepared to offer NW a 50%(?) increase over what Sanchez was receiving, unless he (NW) committed to spending a minimum number of days in NI etc. Consequently, he was seen at The Oval last week for instance, conducting a coaching session for the NI Ladies team.
Therefore the continuing employment of Givens is probably more of a symptom of the problem than the cause. And quite honestly, given his circumstances (age, nationality, contract length etc) it is unrealistic to expect Trapattoni to concern himself with this, as NW does.
Therefore, I suspect the cause of the problem, and its possible resolution, both lie with the FAI, since they ought to have considered this when they appointed Trapattoni.
Then again, they may have done so, then looked at the precedent of Jack Charlton, and decided that if Trap gets you to South Africa, then Givens and the U-21's etc can look after themselves?
Two weeks from today, we play France in Paris and as much, as I hate to say it, the odds are we’ll be knocked out and another four years away from a World Cup.
The cold facts are that by the time June 2014 comes around, our five main players will be the following ages: Shay Given, 37 Richard Dunne, 34 John O’Shea, 33 Damien Duff, 34 Robbie Keane, 33
When you factor in that four more of those in and around the current team will be 32+ (Kevin Kilbane, 36, Keith Andrews, 33, Stephen Hunt, 32, Liam Lawrence, 32), and that Stephen Ireland and Andy Reid are most likely not going to feature under Trap’s upcoming two-year extension, it soon becomes apparent that an injection of fresh blood with be needed over the next qualifying campaign.
Therefore, the man responsible for funnelling those players into the senior system has - besides Trap - the most important job in the FAI. And look who we have in that role!
Forgive my sense of foreboding but it is only then that the scale of the damage caused by Don Givens will be fully understood.
It’s just goes to show the arrogance of Givens that he refused to comment in the Sunday Times last weekend when asked about Treacy, Scannell and Gunning all being axed from his latest squad. This man appears to be answerable to no-one.
The list of players he’s fallen out continues to grow apace and who’s to say the likes of James McCarthy and Owen Garvan are going to be spared from his bizarre shenanigans over the next year or two.
If Stuart Pearce was up to this lark with the English U21s, he would be run out of the place but not here. Enough is enough.
(P.S. I have not even mentioned his atrocious win/lose record).
The point I wanted to make is that Givens is not "developing" players for the senior squad or producing the results to suggest that he is worthy of having a job for life (which he appears to have).
I would prefer a new manager to come in that is doing one or the other.
Up to U21 level, I think it's fair to say that the FAI have their house in order. For some reason the U21 side seems to have been neglected and ignored. And contrary to what you are suggesting, NI have plenty of problems at U21 level as well. Losing matches 6-2 at home to Iceland and with the manager threating that a number of players will never play U21 football again, are you sure Steve Whathisname is not trying to be Don Givens?
Though I had thought things weren't so impressive as when Kerr was in charge of the under-age teams etc, I'll bow to your superior knowledge.
Givens? Or more specifically, the unwillingness of the FAI to address the "reason"?
Short term, yes - I think a number of players started believing their own publicity.
However, Beaglehole has not shirked the job of sorting it out and everyone I have spoken to who has had dealings with him is hugely impressed that he is the man to do it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Beaglehole
Anyhow, it seems that in the short term, he is bypassing the present U-21 team and promoting the very best of the U-19's etc eg Andy Little, Shane Duffy.
As for the long-term, that takes time (obviously!), but the signs are hugely encouraging, not least for the number of 1st or 2nd Generation kids in England he has persuaded to give NI a try (eg four or five at Man Utd alone).
I've no doubt that given time, he and Worthington will seek to impose a broadly similar style of play throughout all the teams, which can only bode well.
Why on earth would anyone else want to be Don Givens?
Wales in the last couple of years seem to have progressed massively at under 21 level.They are starting to produce some very good players are are getting excellent results in qualifying.Is this just down to a particularly good batch of players or did the Welsh FA make a consious effort for this to happen?
Its really not that complicated!!!
four or five at Man Utd alone ... which players are these mate? and who is Andy Little?
Though I had thought things weren't so impressive as when Kerr was in charge of the under-age teams etc, I'll bow to your superior knowledge.
Givens? Or more specifically, the unwillingness of the FAI to address the "reason"?
Short term, yes - I think a number of players started believing their own publicity.
However, Beaglehole has not shirked the job of sorting it out and everyone I have spoken to who has had dealings with him is hugely impressed that he is the man to do it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Beaglehole
Anyhow, it seems that in the short term, he is bypassing the present U-21 team and promoting the very best of the U-19's etc eg Andy Little, Shane Duffy.
As for the long-term, that takes time (obviously!), but the signs are hugely encouraging, not least for the number of 1st or 2nd Generation kids in England he has persuaded to give NI a try (eg four or five at Man Utd alone).
I've no doubt that given time, he and Worthington will seek to impose a broadly similar style of play throughout all the teams, which can only bode well.
Why on earth would anyone else want to be Don Givens?
You have NOT seen many Galway United matches
There's the right way, the wrong way.... and the Max Power way!! :-D
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