U-21 Squad (Georgia & Armenia)

[Alf Honn]

Sure have! Seen him play four matches this season and previous for Ire U19 when he was a Spurs player.

Not a world-beater but have you seen some of the left-backs chosen by Givens?! Don't be so hard on your players!

[macdermesser]

four or five at Man Utd alone ... which players are these mate? and who is Andy Little?

I'm sure EG has more of the low down ...

Conor Devlin
Corry Evans
Joe Dudgeon
Oliver Norwood
Craig Cathcart

Cathcart is on loan at Watford and Evans is Johnny Evans brother. I would have thought that a name like Conor Devlin would be interested in playing for us :-)

Have to agree that there should be a hungrier and more competent manager in charge there. Obviously Kerr would have been great .. but I think he has probably done that and seen that.

Chris Hughton would have been another ... but his career seems to have taken off now.

Stephen Kenny?

[Predator]

...and who is Andy Little?

Andy Little's a lad who was outstanding in the N.I. Milk Cup winning team two years ago. He was playing for Linfield and was signed by Rangers since then. I think he's a regular in their reserves.

I'm EG has more of the low down ...

Conor Devlin
Corry Evans
Joe Dudgeon
Oliver Norwood
Craig Cathcart

Sounds about right there macdermesser. I think Joe Dudgeon and Norwoord are both English but decided to play for NI.

Cathcart is on loan at Watford and Evans is Johnny Evans brother. I would have thought that a name like Conor Devlin would be interested in playing for us :-)

There are plenty of lads in the NI setup who would be interested in playing for us, but it's the manager's job first and foremost to call them up I think.

Have to agree that there should be a hungrier and more competent manager in charge there. Obviously Kerr would have been great .. but I think he has probably done that and seen that.

Chris Hughton would have been another ... but his career seems to have taken off now.

Stephen Kenny?

Like EG said in an earlier post, I don't necessarily think the problem itself is the manager, but rather, the FAI. I don't think Seán McCaffrey is doing the best of jobs in his tenure in charge of the u17 and u19 squads either, so I wouldn't be criticising Don Givens so harshly. That being said, maybe it is time to have a complete restructuring of the under-age squad management. In the event Stephen Kenny leaves Derry, I'd say he'd be an excellent choice as manager of the under-21s or even u19s. For sheer comedy value, I'd offer Dunphy a role too.

[EalingGreen]

I'm EG has more of the low down ...

Conor Devlin
Corry Evans
Joe Dudgeon
Oliver Norwood
Craig Cathcart

Cathcart is on loan at Watford and Evans is Johnny Evans brother. I would have thought that a name like Conor Devlin would be interested in playing for us :-)

Actually, young Devlin seems entirely happy to be playing for us, with no thoughts of defecting. And I don't know whether he's mates with Ollie Norwood, but despite having played for England Schoolboys, Norwood has so enjoyed training with NI etc, he has now declared for us. To get a MU and England player is quite a coup, and totally unimaginable when Miller was in charge.

All of which reflects the point I was making, which is that Beaglehole has been a complete breath of fresh air after Miller, who seemed so immoveable that he wasn't prepared to get off his fat arse and look for new players, or cultivate those he did have.

Someone pointed out on another forum that as well as Cathcart (MU loanee), we have another five youngsters at Watford, all 1st or 2nd generation from different families, who have now declared for NI.

We have 7 youngsters at Preston (though most/all may be NI-born?). We've now even unearthed an English-born player at Chelsea, and one at Arsenal, clubs where we never previously had any contacts.

[EalingGreen]

Andy Little's a lad who was outstanding in the N.I. Milk Cup winning team two years ago. He was playing for Linfield and was signed by Rangers since then. I think he's a regular in their reserves.

Little has now made the step up from Rangers Reserves (not actually their 2nd XI, as it happens), to being on the fringe of the 1st team squad - he has actually started a couple of games, plus come on as sub. Curiously, NI pick him as a striker, which was always his position, but Rangers pick him variously at Full Back, Centre Back and Midfield! And btw, (Enniskillener) Little started out with Ballinamallard Utd, before signing at Ibrox - he never played for Linfield (Thank Goodness!).

I think Joe Dudgeon and Norwoord are both English but decided to play for NI.

Correct.

There are plenty of lads in the NI setup who would be interested in playing for us

Maybe, but such has been the impact of Beaglehole and his team, that most seem to be happy to stay, since the atmosphere and organisation, indeed whole environment is now so enjoyable. Plus the fact that we are unearthing so many new GB-born players means we can better afford to lose the occasional individual who looks Southwards.
Indeed, we have even kept one young lad from Cavan, Chris Curran, who played for our Schoolboys since he went to school over the border in Fermanagh. (Don't worry, he qualifies for NI beyond Schools football via Fermanagh ancestry and in any case, may not make it as a pro, since he was recently released by MU to sign for Conference side, Forest Green).

but it's the manager's job first and foremost to call them up I think.

Agree (though I personally hope that the ROI selectors keep waiting for the player to make the first call!) Anyhow, there have been a few English-born players who have been reluctant to "burn their bridges" with their country of birth. Rather than giving up on them like Miller would have done, Beaglehole has kept in constant contact, to assure them that NI was still an option, finally persuading a couple to give us a go. Most notable of these was Chelsea full-back Carl Magnay, a Gateshead lad who had been reluctant, partly because his only connection was a grandparent.

I don't necessarily think the problem itself is the manager, but rather, the FAI. I don't think Seán McCaffrey is doing the best of jobs in his tenure in charge of the u17 and u19 squads either, so I wouldn't be criticising Don Givens so harshly. That being said, maybe it is time to have a complete restructuring of the under-age squad management. In the event Stephen Kenny leaves Derry, I'd say he'd be an excellent choice as manager of the under-21s or even u19s. For sheer comedy value, I'd offer Dunphy a role too.

Not familiar with the ROI's Youth set-up, but that sounds right; the fewer young players you have, the more important it is that you have the right people looking after them, as part of an overall plan which encourages continuity and consistency.
Indeed, having a small pool of players to work with can actually help, since it means those kids who can make the step-up quickly can be identified early and "fast-tracked".
Our best example recently is Niall McGinn; I don't know whether he'll make it at Parkhead or not, but he shows he's got the 'X' Factor every time he puts on an NI shirt!

[ifk101]

.... I don't think Seán McCaffrey is doing the best of jobs in his tenure in charge of the u17 and u19 squads either....

I wonder why you'd think that, Shane ?

[SuperDave]

Andy Little's a lad who was outstanding in the N.I. Milk Cup winning team two years ago. He was playing for Linfield and was signed by Rangers since then. I think he's a regular in their reserves.



Sounds about right there macdermesser. I think Joe Dudgeon and Norwoord are both English but decided to play for NI.

There are plenty of lads in the NI setup who would be interested in playing for us, but it's the manager's job first and foremost to call them up I think.

Like EG said in an earlier post, I don't necessarily think the problem itself is the manager, but rather, the FAI. I don't think Seán McCaffrey is doing the best of jobs in his tenure in charge of the u17 and u19 squads either, so I wouldn't be criticising Don Givens so harshly. That being said, maybe it is time to have a complete restructuring of the under-age squad management. In the event Stephen Kenny leaves Derry, I'd say he'd be an excellent choice as manager of the under-21s or even u19s. For sheer comedy value, I'd offer Dunphy a role too.

I'm not sure about that. I actually worked with Niall McGinn in a bar a couple of years back (when he was still playing for the Swifts) and we were talking about the Darron Gibson situation and Niall said he would only play for the North. The Gibson situation is a bit different because Derry City is a bit different (as a place I mean not as a club) in terms of how it considers itself part of Ireland. The buses from Derry to Dublin are as full as the buses from Derry to Belfast and there aren't very many other places you can say that about in the North.

[EalingGreen]

I'm not sure about that. I actually worked with Niall McGinn in a bar a couple of years back (when he was still playing for the Swifts) and we were talking about the Darron Gibson situation and Niall said he would only play for the North. The Gibson situation is a bit different because Derry City is a bit different (as a place I mean not as a club) in terms of how it considers itself part of Ireland. The buses from Derry to Dublin are as full as the buses from Derry to Belfast and there aren't very many other places you can say that about in the North.

Very interesting observation re wee Niall (this Board really needs a 'Thumbs Up!' icon, btw).

Certainly he has always said the right things about representing NI in the media, and whilst paper talk etc is hardly the most reliable source, the way he actually plays strongly reinforces this.

Anyhow, good for him, especially since it is fair to say he is no great fan of the anthem* and you will probably know that he comes from Donaghmore way, which without meaning to be provocative, makes Derry look like somewhere from the English Home Counties!

In any case, after just a couple of appearances for NI, he is already a firm favourite with the fans, which considering he's stepping into the shoes of former legend Keith Gillespie, is a hell of a compliment!

* - I do wish they'd change the bloody thing myself, though that's another thread on its own!

[Predator]

Little has now made the step up from Rangers Reserves (not actually their 2nd XI, as it happens), to being on the fringe of the 1st team squad - he has actually started a couple of games, plus come on as sub. Curiously, NI pick him as a striker, which was always his position, but Rangers pick him variously at Full Back, Centre Back and Midfield! And btw, (Enniskillener) Little started out with Ballinamallard Utd, before signing at Ibrox - he never played for Linfield (Thank Goodness!).

Cool, it's good to hear. Thanks for the correction too EG, my mistake!

Not familiar with the ROI's Youth set-up, but that sounds right; the fewer young players you have, the more important it is that you have the right people looking after them, as part of an overall plan which encourages continuity and consistency.
Indeed, having a small pool of players to work with can actually help, since it means those kids who can make the step-up quickly can be identified early and "fast-tracked".
Our best example recently is Niall McGinn; I don't know whether he'll make it at Parkhead or not, but he shows he's got the 'X' Factor every time he puts on an NI shirt!

Yeah, I agree here- McGinn has been phenomenal. I really hope he makes it. To address the point though, I feel, since Brian Kerr left his post of under-age manager, the whole set-up seems to have changed and there hasn't been one real notable achievement since Kerr to be honest.That is why I pointed out that it was not just Don Givens who was to blame, but McCaffrey and most importantly, the FAI itself.

I wonder why you'd think that, Shane ?

Ha, somehow I don't think a 17 year old professional footballer would be bothered with posting about himself on a messageboard. The only reason I post about Duffy, is because he's a Derry lad, like myself, and he's a talent we could harness - I also post about young Patrick McEleney and Darron Gibson from time to time; am I them too? . In any case, the omission of Shane Duffy from squads is certainly not the reason why I pointed out McCaffrey's performance as youth manager - Duffy is only one player. IMHO, he hasn't been using his resources well and that has been reflected in recent results - losing 6-1 to Switzerland was as disgraceful as the NI team losing 6-2 to Iceland, I feel.

[Predator]

I'm not sure about that. I actually worked with Niall McGinn in a bar a couple of years back (when he was still playing for the Swifts) and we were talking about the Darron Gibson situation and Niall said he would only play for the North.

To be fair, that's one situation, interesting and all as it is. I was speaking broadly and I'm pretty certain that a large number of lads from the North would rather play for Ireland.

* - I do wish they'd change the bloody thing myself, though that's another thread on its own!

Damn right EG! It would help the case for a more inclusive NI team.

[ifk101]

DON GIVENS has admitted Keith Treacy has been returned to international exile for another breach of discipline with the Ireland under-21 squad.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...258192937.html

[Junior]

Would be interesting to see who the other small group of players consisted of and whether they have been excluded from the squad? Or is it because Treacy has form?

[ifk101]

Shame about Treacy as he is a player that potentially can push for a place in the senior squad.

But do we really have such a high number of young players with "bad attitudes"?

[Alf Honn]

From the Irish Times:
The winger is understood to have been with a small group of players that failed to return to the team hotel at the appointed time.
“The situation has been dealt with in-house and I won’t be commenting on it directly. It’s been dealt with and I’d rather leave it at that,” said Givens.
“I will say that Keith has been left out of the squad as his attitude isn’t right at present. It wasn’t before and it needs to be right if we are to look at him again further down the line.”

------


Don, Don, Don,


Let me get this clear.


Ireland play Georgia on the Friday, Oct 9 after which a small nbr of players (not just Treacy) are late back to the hotel.



You decide you are not happy with Treacy's attitude and, of course, he's not a good influence on the other, younger members of the squad.




Your head tells you it's the end for this upstart. He's ****ed you off before and no-one will tell you that someone of his talent is beyond your high standards of authority.



You'll banish him from the camp the next morning (Sat) with no breakfast. He can bugger off and miss the Tues match against Swiss for his sins.



But no, Don. Instead of following through with your principle, you keep the player around the squad base for the next four days, whereupon he springs from the bench and sets up a last-minute equaliser.



What fun would we have without you, Don!

[Predator]

Originally Posted by Don Givens
"I don’t run the squad with an iron fist but I’m trying to instil good professional habits with these young players that will stand them in good stead with their club careers, let alone their international futures,”

He has a point I think, assuming that this is the real reason he has excluded certain players.

It's not impossible that a group of Irish lads might go on the rip when back home and if that is the kind of thing they're doing the night before a match, I'd rather not see them in the squad.

I wonder is Givens talking of Foot.ie here...:

Originally Posted by Don Givens
“It surprises me that people who’ve never even seen the under-21 team play can find it very easy to criticise how I pick the squad. “We played in Tallaght last month and I didn’t see the people who were writing about me this week at that game."

[ifk101]

He has a point I think, assuming that this is the real reason he has excluded certain players.

It's not impossible that a group of Irish lads might go on the rip when back home and if that is the kind of thing they're doing the night before a match, I'd rather not see them in the squad.

Yes totally agree. One thing about Givens is that he is brutally honest in giving his take on things. But maybe it's how Givens views certain events and actions that is the problem. And we don't know if those players were on the rip - they could have been caught in traffic/ at the cinema etc etc for all we know.

I wonder is Givens talking of Foot.ie here...:

.