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Thread: UCD finances

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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    UCD finances

    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Jesus; do people still believe this nonsense, or are they just trolling when they post it?
    Perhaps you should just publish audited accounts. That would put an end to this, wouldn't it?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Probably not, given how people like to make up stuff about the club anyway.

    In any event, as I'm sure you're aware, there's no point going to the added expense of filing audited accounts (including P&L) just to satisfy conspiracy theorists like yourself.

    And FWIW, only a handful of clubs (Bohs and Cork that I'm aware) publish audited P&L accounts. Only about 12 clubs file accounts with the CRO, but the rest contain only the balance sheet, which gives no information on expenses. So by your logic, any financial discussion on any club bar Bohs and Cork should be banned.

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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Probably not, given how people like to make up stuff about the club anyway.

    In any event, as I'm sure you're aware, there's no point going to the added expense of filing audited accounts (including P&L) just to satisfy conspiracy theorists like yourself.

    And FWIW, only a handful of clubs (Bohs and Cork that I'm aware) publish audited P&L accounts. Only about 12 clubs file accounts with the CRO, but the rest contain only the balance sheet, which gives no information on expenses. So by your logic, any financial discussion on any club bar Bohs and Cork should be banned.
    Very well. Don't audit them and file them. Just give us a rough idea under various budget headings -- a little more than telling us on a loop how prudent and sensible you are while moaning about other clubs' folly.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.untitled View Post
    But say you get those investors to invest in the league (a 10 team league) and not the clubs.
    Up there with clubs running themselves properly in the improbability stakes, I'm afraid.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    Just give us a rough idea under various budget headings -- a little more than telling us on a loop how prudent and sensible you are while moaning about other clubs' folly.
    I've posted the wage budget in thread. I've posted before info an the income side of things. I don't have specific admin expense info, so can't post the info you (don't) need. The fact that UCD have never welched on player wages shows you that UCD are run prudently and sensibly. Pretty much any criticism I've levied at other clubs has been justified.

    Perhaps you or gael353 might back up your theory that all our expenses are paid for by the college?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lep
    Will Sporting Fingal able to maintain a Premier division side with the quality of players they have long term from the the money coming through the gates on match days? Only time will tell
    Eh, no. I think simple maths will tell.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 27/10/2009 at 2:58 PM.

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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Perhaps you or gael353 might back up your theory that all our expenses are paid for by the college.
    No PS. It's the people inside the club who give account of it to those outside. I don't ask you to provide me with details on Bohs. I, or my club, give those to you.

    As long as your financial affairs remain largely opaque, it will be perfectly reasonable for those on the outside to assume that those parts which you prefer not to open to scrutiny are, or may be, subject to subvention by dint of being within UCD. And it will be reasonable to find your perpetual lecturing on these matters rather trite and hollow.

    I agree with you essentially on the principles, especially in relation to the abomination that is Sporting Franchise. It's just a pity that you can't shine that righteous beacon of light with some real figures from the real world.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celdrog View Post
    Is that the €17.5k per week?
    Where did you get it from?
    Meant our (approx) wage budget of E3k a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    No PS. It's the people inside the club who give account of it to those outside.
    Alas, no. If you're going to go off making up conspiracy theories about another club, it's up to you to provide some element of back-up. Otherwise, you may as well accuse us of using child labour to design our match tickets, or of using Nazi gold to finance our evil plot to hold back the ambitions of all the good and honourable clubs in the league.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 28/10/2009 at 9:26 AM.

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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    If you're going to go off making up conspiracy theories about another club, it's up to you to provide some element of back-up.
    It's not a conspiracy theory. It's just what's apparent from your setup. If you want people to stop thinking the obvious, i.e that the association with the college does materially benefit you, then you really should be able to show rather than tell.

    Otherwise, you may as well accuse us of using child labour to design our match tickets, or of using Nazi gold to finance our evil plot to hold back the ambitions of all the good and honourable clubs in the league.
    What's happening Ted?

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    Coach John83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    As long as your financial affairs remain largely opaque, it will be perfectly reasonable for those on the outside to assume that those parts which you prefer not to open to scrutiny are, or may be, subject to subvention by dint of being within UCD.
    You have us. We've been padding our budget with money from the pink unicorn Dick Shakespeare keeps in the home dressing rooms.

    An earlier post in this thread claimed that our ground maintenance is covered by the university. This is false.

    It claimed that our stadium was paid for by the university. This is not only false, but irrelevant, as many other clubs have not paid to build their own stadium.

    You have speculated on our ESB bill, but I know that the club pays for that too - I can recall our club secretary bemoaning the cost of running the floodlights for a training session - he stated an approximate cost at the time too.

    You've accused us of getting office space for free - I doubt it: even the schools are expected to pay for the space they occupy: people I know in physics have complained about that cost in my presence, saying they had to cut back on their office and lab space for that reason.

    The direct income the club gets from the college, as has been repeatedly stated, is about enough for the running costs of the intervarsity teams, a cost other clubs don't have. The indirect benefits are negligible.

    Frankly, the only think you've accused us of I can't be reasonably certain about is photocopying costs. And if you think subsidised photocopying has us top of the First Division, well, I look forward to your insights on Bohs' next set of accounts. I can never read enough good comedy.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    It's not a conspiracy theory. It's just what's apparent from your setup.
    What - that we're based in a college?

    I reckon it's apparent from Waterford United's close ties with the Waterford Council that the club pay none of their own expenses at all. See how ridiculous that sounds?

    If you want people to stop thinking the obvious, i.e that the association with the college doesn't materially benefit you, then you really should be able to show rather than tell.
    Of course the association with the college benefits us. The scholarship scheme (which the club pays for) wouldn't work without the association. However, there is absolutely nothing to suggest - bar your own over-active imagination - that the college bankrolls the club. I can tell you that anecdotally without needing to post detailed accounts.

    (UCD stuff split to its own thread)

    Edit - one last point, using figures which have been mentioned before. Our budget for this year is approx E300k. Our wage budget is approx E3k a week - over 40 weeks, this is E120k. What are we doing with the balance? Having money fights, perchance?
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 28/10/2009 at 12:26 PM.

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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    I've lost interest since the modding got heavy on this.

    As I say, it's not a conspiracy; there are no flowcharts and shady people in corners. Just a handy arrangement with the biggest third level institution in the country, which works in ways only UCD people know. You can try to convince people otherwise with bluster (expect more) and infractions, but you won't do so until you have accounts that enumerate any and all ways in which such a situation potentially could be of benefit.

    Pineapple, if you want to be right, that's ok. You're The Man, and you're free to post what you like and censor what you like even though you have an interest in the argument.

    That's not straight dealing, but it's your little bowl of influence and I wouldn't presume to take it from you.

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    Seasoned Pro marinobohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    What - that we're based in a college?

    I reckon it's apparent from Waterford United's close ties with the Waterford Council that the club pay none of their own expenses at all. See how ridiculous that sounds?


    Of course the association with the college benefits us. The scholarship scheme (which the club pays for) wouldn't work without the association. However, there is absolutely nothing to suggest - bar your own over-active imagination - that the college bankrolls the club. I can tell you that anecdotally without needing to post detailed accounts.

    (UCD stuff split to its own thread)

    Edit - one last point, using figures which have been mentioned before. Our budget for this year is approx E300k. Our wage budget is approx E3k a week - over 40 weeks, this is E120k. What are we doing with the balance? Having money fights, perchance?
    Jesus H lads, do we not have enough clubs in trouble without negitive speculation about one that may/may not be ?
    I have no idea about the finanaces of UCD (apart from what I read here) but genuinely hope that things are as PS states.
    If there is some benifit gained from attachment to UCD then good luck to them ! various clubs enjoy some local benifit but I would be genuinely surprised if UCD had money to divert to the football club given the collages own finanacial difficulties. Cheer up there is always a chance (just a small chance ) that a LOI club is doing well under its own steam. it will never catch on though
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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinobohs View Post
    Jesus H lads, do we not have enough clubs in trouble without negitive speculation about one that may/may not be ?
    I have no idea about the finanaces of UCD (apart from what I read here) but genuinely hope that things are as PS states.
    If there is some benifit gained from attachment to UCD then good luck to them ! various clubs enjoy some local benifit but I would be genuinely surprised if UCD had money to divert to the football club given the collages own finanacial difficulties. Cheer up there is always a chance (just a small chance ) that a LOI club is doing well under its own steam. it will never catch on though
    Happy to go along with that MB. I'm all for not glorying in the negatives surrounding other clubs.
    I'm not especially exercised by UCD's finances. They are only relevant in the context of the always-on sanctimony coming from that quarter with respect to the sins and follies of others, while their own affairs remain an unaccounted mystery.

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    Seasoned Pro peadar1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    I've lost interest since the modding got heavy on this.

    As I say, it's not a conspiracy; there are no flowcharts and shady people in corners. Just a handy arrangement with the biggest third level institution in the country, which works in ways only UCD people know. You can try to convince people otherwise with bluster (expect more) and infractions, but you won't do so until you have accounts that enumerate any and all ways in which such a situation potentially could be of benefit.
    UCC?!

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    Capped Player Schumi's Avatar
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    DIT is the biggest in terms of numbers of students afaik. I assume BohDiddley meant best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi View Post
    DIT is the biggest in terms of numbers of students afaik. I assume BohDiddley meant best.
    UCD certainly sounds to be a lot better run then DIT.

    FWIW, I think the DIT student number is c. 22k full-time students. Don't know about part-time.
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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi View Post
    I assume BohDiddley meant best.
    No comment!

    I meant the biggest single college. DIT probably is the largest 3rd level entity all right. I don't know their football set-up, either in terms of participation in college leagues or ownership/access to facilities, but I'd imagine they could support a decent LoI setup without extending themselves too much either.

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    Coach superfrank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    I don't know their football set-up, either in terms of participation in college leagues or ownership/access to facilities, but I'd imagine they could support a decent LoI setup without extending themselves too much either.
    There are several DIT teams of varying success in the intervarsity system and several players from these teams play/played for LoI teams. The teams share facilities with DIT GAA and maybe with DIT Rugby (not sure about that one, though). The main pitches are at Grangegorman but I don't know if DIT own them.

    ATM, there is a moratorium on the renewal of contracts for all non-academic staff at DIT (and I imagine at all other state colleges) which means the sports side of things will slowly be eroded as all the coaches, physios, etc. will not be offered new contracts.
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    First Team BohDiddley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfrank View Post
    There are several DIT teams of varying success in the intervarsity system and several players from these teams play/played for LoI teams. The teams share facilities with DIT GAA and maybe with DIT Rugby (not sure about that one, though). The main pitches are at Grangegorman but I don't know if DIT own them.

    ATM, there is a moratorium on the renewal of contracts for all non-academic staff at DIT (and I imagine at all other state colleges) which means the sports side of things will slowly be eroded as all the coaches, physios, etc. will not be offered new contracts.
    Still, longer-term, if UCD can do it (and it seems we are to believe that it costs nothing) surely DIT can? It would be quite something if the infrastructure were dismantled to the extent that there would be no coaches, physios or admin staff and they would have to close their facilities.

    Embedding a club there would still be a good way to absorb a lot of overheads: the outlook would be a lot less fraught than someone setting up another Wexford Youths or trying to keep Limerick on the go.

    Wonder what the league/FAI would say if it were to emerge as a proposal? Would UCD v DIT make for a good derby?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohDiddley View Post
    Still, longer-term, if UCD can do it (and it seems we are to believe that it costs nothing)


    Did you read posts 8 and 9 in this thread? Or do you just believe what suits your viewpoint?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post


    Did you read posts 8 and 9 in this thread? Or do you just believe what suits your viewpoint?
    There's nothing wrong with expressing skepticism at an unattributed post which can't be backed up by publicly available info.

    I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but just cause you say its true doesn't mean we all have to fall in line. He's within his rights not to believe you!

    If you come back with a copy of the football clubs budget and expenses then obviously its a different story.

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