UCD finances

[pineapple stu]

He's absolutely within his rights to be sceptical, but that's different to being within his rights to go around presenting his views as fact ("it seems we are to believe" - just nonsense). Particularly when he said even a rough summary of the budget/expenses would suffice, which he was then given, and to which I then redirected his attention.

The information is there for no-one bar Bohs and Cork, so I'll just assume every club bar those two are sponging off the council and paying no bills, shall I?

[superfrank]

It would be quite something if the infrastructure were dismantled to the extent that there would be no coaches, physios or admin staff and they would have to close their facilities.

They've already closed the gym and swimming pool at the Kevin Street campus because the staff's contracts expired and the Gov will not let DIT renew non-academic contracts. This was open to the public so it wasn't relying entirely on DIT's funding.

Also, I'm sure there's dozens of people who would bitch about another Dublin team.

[Schumi]

Still, longer-term, if UCD can do it (and it seems we are to believe that it costs nothing) surely DIT can?

If they could manage the sponsorship and fundraising to pay for the team, there's no reason to believe that a DIT team couldn't compete in the league. UCD was a big football college before we entered the league though so that would presumably have made it easier to attract financial support from people who were involved previously. This may not be the case with DIT.

Whether they'd attract scholarship players of a sufficient quality is debatable too.

[marinobohs]

Happy to go along with that MB. I'm all for not glorying in the negatives surrounding other clubs.
I'm not especially exercised by UCD's finances. They are only relevant in the context of the always-on sanctimony coming from that quarter with respect to the sins and follies of others, while their own affairs remain an unaccounted mystery.

Not a lot else to gloat about out Belfield way given the huge amount of real issues out there in LOI land I just don't see the need to manufacture bad news (there are enough people doing that). If UCD are in some way benifiting from links with the collage good luck to them, any advantage anyone in Irish football gets then I am all for it !

[pineapple stu]

If UCD are in some way benifiting from links with the collage good luck to them, any advantage anyone in Irish football gets then I am all for it !

Nail on head.

We just need to be realistic about how much help we get from the college, as I noted earlier in the thread.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Whether they'd attract scholarship players of a sufficient quality is debatable too.

I'm sure they would, possibly better than what we would get.

[pineapple stu]

Why do you reckon that?

(Genuinely curious)

[BohDiddley]

There's nothing wrong with expressing skepticism at an unattributed post which can't be backed up by publicly available info.

I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but just cause you say its true doesn't mean we all have to fall in line. He's within his rights not to believe you!

If you come back with a copy of the football clubs budget and expenses then obviously its a different story.

It's not simply a question of believing or not believing. Of course I don't doubt that UCD have some expenditures. It's a question of emphasis and interpretation.

UCD fans apparently want us to see their club as paying its own way. This applies especially in PS's case, given as he is to lecturing others on the topic. So their financial standing is going to be articulated not as budget lines and figures, but as assumption-laden rhetoric and counter-demands for proof of subventions. The rest of us are free largely to disregard such bluster, and attendant non-figures, according to a best guess as to how large organizations, and smaller parts within them, benefit from shared overheads and general economies of scale. As I say, no magic, and no conspiracy.

I know I'm not going to get the figures, so there's no point in pressing it. But I do reserve the right not to accept without comment PS's tiresome pontificating on matters of finance and sustainability, which is what marks this club out from, say, others with council tie-ins (though I have also posted similar sentiments re Fingal, based on their geographical overlap with existing LoI clubs.)

Anyway, I think the DIT hypothesis is a worthwhile way of looking at it. I'd hate it if we turned LoI into an inter-varsity (or inter-local authority) league, but if we're all happy with the fanbase-free UCD model then it might be a goer for other colleges of similar scale.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Why do you reckon that?

(Genuinely curious)

Knew I should have explained first time as I would surely be asked the question.

I'm trying to avoid making stereotypes here but if you look at the more popular course choices for people going to college at the moment the CAO points that they would be would be higher in UCD than DIT...obviously you can have cases where people are multi talented in sport and academics but in a lot of circumstances people talented at sport would still be concentrating a lot on that in Leaving Cert year so their studies might get sacrificed. Last year we only had around 5/6 scholarships and while that would be a standard amount it is hardly huge and some of the players that missed out as a result of not securing a good enough Leaving Cert to attend UCD but would be enough to do the course they want in DIT. Some of these players are going to be better than what we signed.

[LeixlipRed]

Why do you reckon that?

(Genuinely curious)

Easier entry requirements in DIT? I know UCD has that Diploma (sports management??) but the entry requirements are still toughish. For example you need a OB in Ordinary level maths.

[pineapple stu]

So we'll be at a disadvantage because we pick smarter players? I like.

A fair point, I suppose. I think the UCD scholarship scheme has such a headstart over anything else at the moment that it'd be players' number one choices, but yeah, if they don't get their number one choice, we suffer.

I think there may be dispensation to the points requirements for players who come back from England with no Leaving Cert, which would even it up a bit. I've no real idea how that works though. And it hasn't happened too often lately (Ronan Finn was probably the last one, and I don't know if he has a Leaving or not)

[paudie]

Probably not, given how people like to make up stuff about the club anyway.

In any event, as I'm sure you're aware, there's no point going to the added expense of filing audited accounts (including P&L) just to satisfy conspiracy theorists like yourself.

And FWIW, only a handful of clubs (Bohs and Cork that I'm aware) publish audited P&L accounts. Only about 12 clubs file accounts with the CRO, but the rest contain only the balance sheet, which gives no information on expenses. So by your logic, any financial discussion on any club bar Bohs and Cork should be banned.

No extra expense in filing audited accounts. Filing fee is the same. Auditors fees would be higher though.
it seems to be a condition of licencing that clubs run by companies have to have audited accounts, even though most would qualify for audit exemption under CRO rules.

Bohs are run by a company limited by guarantee rather than a company limited by shares so they have to file the P&L as well as Balance sheet

[pineapple stu]

Our filing fee is zero as we're a college club.

And obviously your point on the auditors' fees is more what I was referring to; probably phrased it badly.

[paudie]

Our filing fee is zero as we're a college club.

And obviously your point on the auditors' fees is more what I was referring to; probably phrased it badly.

I presume UCD must submit accounts for some entity(eg club ) when making yor licence application.
This must be at least signed off by an accountant if not audited

[John83]

I presume UCD must submit accounts for some entity(eg club ) when making yor licence application.
This must be at least signed off by an accountant if not audited

...obviously your point on the auditors' fees is more what I was referring to...

...Auditors fees would be higher though...

For those of you who are confused, the above are quoted in reverse chronological order. And no, it doesn't make any more sense the right way around.

[paudie]

For those of you who are confused, the above are quoted in reverse chronological order. And no, it doesn't make any more sense the right way around.

My question is do UCD submit accounts with their application and I presume those accounts have some form of accountants report/audited report attached.

While your contribution is welcome it doesn't shed any light on that point

[John83]

My question is do UCD submit accounts with their application and I presume those accounts have some form of accountants report/audited report attached.

While your contribution is welcome it doesn't shed any light on that point

Licensing requires audited accounts. Ergo, UCD submit audited accounts to the licensing committee.

What we're not is a company, so filing accounts with the CRO would cost us money we don't need to spend.

Clear enough?

[paudie]

Licensing requires audited accounts. Ergo, UCD submit audited accounts to the licensing committee.

What we're not is a company, so filing accounts with the CRO would cost us money we don't need to spend.

Clear enough?

Crystal.

Don't know why you didn't answer my reasonable question with your first post though

[pineapple stu]

Licensing requires audited accounts. Ergo, UCD submit audited accounts to the licensing committee.

What we're not is a company, so filing accounts with the CRO would cost us money we don't need to spend.

It's usually cheaper for an accountant to prepare accounts like ours over accounts that will be going into the CRO too. But I don't know exactly what licencing requires in that regard.

We do pay an accountant to do our monthly accounts for licencing, by the way, just in case any think we get accounting undergrads to do it for us for free.

[thischarmingman]

We do pay an accountant to do our monthly accounts for licencing, by the way, just in case any think we get accounting undergrads to do it for us for free.

Apparently we do.