Middle East/Asia travel advice
Me and my girlfriend are going to go away travelling in Jan/Feb of next year for about 6 months and are planning our route at the moment, with a view to booking flights in the next 2 weeks or so.
The route so far is kind of in two parts. In the first part, we're thinking of starting off in Egypt at Cairo and travelling up through Jordan, Syria and Turkey to Iran. From Iran we'd then go north through Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and to Almaty in Kazakhstan, flying from there to Beijing.
The second part would then be to work our way down through China to get to Vietnam and then from there through Laos, Thailand and Cambodia, finishing in either the Philippines, or Indonesia.
Is there anyone who's been to any of these places or done a similar route that would be able to offer any advice or see any obvious flaws in the plan or anything? For example, as far as I'm aware, having an Israeli stamp on your passport bars you from a number of other countries in the area, so that's why we're avoiding it, even though I'd love to go there.
As far as visas go, we're going to make a list of every country and their requirement and then list them in order of how soon we need to be making tracks to get them sorted, same with any health issues.
Any advice/help/anecdotes/warnings/book recommendations much appreciated
Last edited by thischarmingman; 28/10/2009 at 5:05 PM.
*******!!!
I subscribe to a travel magazine called Wanderlust which a few issues back had a big section on travelling in the Stans. It also had an issue on China. I think you can buy back-issues on their website - www.Wanderlust.co.uk. Sounds ideal for what you're planning - has one to four week suggested itineraries, visa info, highlights and other stuff.
Cool, you wouldn't happen to know the issue numbers? It's difficult to tell from their website.Originally Posted by pineapple stu
EDIT:
Actually, I've found the pdf here (from Nov 2007): http://www.wanderlust.co.uk/trip-pla...php?page_num=3
It's subscriber-only content however but I might order the actual issue if it's possible.
Last edited by thischarmingman; 28/10/2009 at 6:28 PM.
Good luck with the trip....... For example, as far as I'm aware, having an Israeli stamp on your passport bars you from a number of other countries in the area, so that's why we're avoiding it, even though I'd love to go there.
As far as visas go, we're going to make a list of every country and their requirement and then list them in order of how soon we need to be making tracks to get them sorted, same with any health issues.
Any advice/help/anecdotes/warnings/book recommendations much appreciated
Having a stamp from some of her neighbours restricts your entitlements in Israel/Palestine.
Lonely Planet used to advise to get visa at the last destination first and work backwards as it shows that you have permission to travel to the next country (at least permission to present at the border post). Just be aware of the validity of the visa.
Bradt publications like to think of themselves as cutting-edge on destinations (bringing out an Iraq book in 2004..I can think of other words to describe them).
There's a map centre on Aungier street in Dublin 2. That may be helpful for planning. Or maybe this crowd.
http://www.mapsworldwide.com/
" I'll go right up to here,
it can't possibly hurt.
All they will find is my
beer and my shirt."
The SE Asian portion of the trip should be pretty easy to source info on, the Thai, Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam route is a well worn backpacking trail.
For what it’s worth my Mrs & I did Vietnam 3 years ago, mainly stayed in the south around Saigon & the Mekong delta before travelling up the coast eventually as far as Nha Trang. We really enjoyed it and would heartily recommend it, good food (not brave enough to try the dog though), good people and lots to see and do.
Thailand I’ve been to a couple of times and it is high up on my favourite place list, that said it’s a few years since we were there (pre-tsunami) so any advice I would have would probably be outdated, except this, stay well clear of Pattaya, it is according to my Thai residing mate, “an absolute sewer”.
Not sure if you’re travelling through HKK but I’m guessing based on your route, it’s highly likely. It’s a great city, a real interesting blend of East & West.
good luck with it,
the lonelyplanet Thorn Tree Message Board has a more specific destination advice for you. And of course ask the individual Embassies for the Visa applications you may need for the trip.
take care,
harpo.
" I'll go right up to here,
it can't possibly hurt.
All they will find is my
beer and my shirt."
If u head to China then you have to go to the province of Shanxi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanxi#Tourism
Not many tourists go here but you can see the town of Pingyao which is a world heritage site and is one of the very few old style Chinese towns still standing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingyao
The province also has the 4th biggest Buddhist statues in Datong, which are quite amazing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yungang_Grottoes
and Mount Hang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Heng_(Shanxi)
The capital city is Taiyuan whihc is not really that interesting but the people have real character and are kind
Also the province is very polluted and Taiyuan was once 3rd most polluted city in the world!!! But hell it always beats Beijing IMHO
Get the Israeli authorities to stamp a bit of paper and staple it inside the passport- worked for me.
Will post more advice later, too wrecked now.
Cool thanks I may check them out to get a decent map to travel with.
Thanks, I'll look into including some of those places - we're working a rough itinerary out over the weekend.
I'm happy to take a few risks with stuff like that and try to wing it, but not on the very first border crossing of the trip. The Israeli border control will in most cases have no problem with stamping a bit of paper; the problem is that my passport will have an exit stamp from Egypt, and then an entrance stamp at Syria that will leave no doubt as to where I've been. Which is why I can't just use a British passport for one, and an Irish for another. I'd also like to not rule myself out of a host of countries within a couple of weeks of setting off so at the moment the plan is to fly to Egypt and then fly out 2 weeks later or so from Cairo to Amman.
That site's an excellent help
Taiyuan is only an overnight from Beijing, and the best thing about going there is that you then can head south to see the terracoota warriers in Xian which is an overnight and a bit - travelling on Chinese trains is also an experience worth having, esp amongst the ordinary people in the hard seats
Turkmenistan is an amazing country but visas are pretty hard to get. They have become strict on issuing them and you need an iternary and hotel bookings for all your nights you spend and also proof of exit (e.g. flight or rail ticket out). I would have an other plan in place just in case you dont get the visa. You may be able to get a transit visa for Turkmenistan which should be cheaper and is more likely to be issued.
Syria you should be able to get a visa on the border as there is no Syrian embassy in Ireland (they have a policy of issuing border visas fairly quickly for citizens who cannot apply in their home countries). I think for China you need one nights accom, and proof of exit tickets - but that was when I went back in Sept 2008, things may well have changed. Kazakh visas should be simple enough. Also Iran (pre election) would issue a 2 week visa to Irish nationals at Imam Khomeni Airport (Tehran) and this could be extended at a local police station for another 2 weeks. I'm not sure what the status is now.
Thanks for all the info. Iran seems to be the only one with a bit of hassle, on the first stage of the trip at least. Egypt is done at the airport, Jordan is technically free to enter on the ferry as we're doing, Syria, as you say, should issue a visa at the border and Turkey as an EU member is easy. As far as I can see we'll have to get letters of invitation for Iran.
The only way of doing Turkmenistan as a tourist is with a guide which is far too costly, so we'll apply for transport visas in Iran. Uzbekistan also involves a letter of invitation, while Kazakhstan shouldn't present too much difficulty.
That's as far as I've got on the Visa planning at the moment, haven't really examined the rest too much, except for North Korea which I'd like to do.
Yeah, since I made that first post we've decided to go on the train from Almaty to Beijing rather than fly, and to spend more time in the west of China. Hopefully, we'll be able to get some sort of hop-on, hop-off ticket.
Last edited by thischarmingman; 26/11/2009 at 7:06 PM.
TCM,
For North Korea the "go to" guy is our James.
Some of his stories about it are mental. And you better like fish.
Just heard in the last few days that they have loads of new Bullet style trains now in operation in parts of China
(from Taiyuan to Beijing now in 3 hours - used to take the good part of the day/night!!!!!)
That is awesome and saves so much time and energy, and they are not expensive as well
Enjoy your trip
Out of a matter of interest TCM, how much do you reckon this trip will cost?
In the last few months i've been seriously thinking of doing a bit of travelling maybe at end of next year, so just wondering what type of cash i'd need to be setting aside.
Depends how much you want to do/how much comfort you need.
We'll probably save some money from travelling as a couple, and we're also going to go couch-surfing for parts of it- maybe 3/4 days/week if it's possible. Anywhere else we stay will be in/on hostels/budget hotels and roofs, with the exception of camping a few nights in Asia.
With that in mind, we're budgeting around €1000/month each. That doesn't include the pre-travelling stuff- flights, visas, insurance, vaccinations, equipment, guide books, new passport (not going to the Middle East on a British passport) etc, all of which I'd estimate to be another €1000 spent before going, on top of the €1000/month that I'd want to have the day we fly off.
I did Poland, Ukraine and Russia a couple of years ago and found everything, in Ukraine and Poland especially, a lot cheaper than I'd thought (19c/beer in L'viv!). Then again, when you're coming from Dublin just about everywhere in the world is less expensive.
While I'm not averse to major tourist resorts, I would generally (you can probably tell by the route I'm going) prefer to avoid spending 6 or 7 months travelling well-worn routes and even in major cities I prefer to seek out more local, and cheaper places so that helps financially too.
I'm also thinking of getting a second credit card with an overdraft that I don't intend to use whatsoever and intend to cancel the minute I get home, or taking out a loan to keep in a second account and not touch at all, just as a kind of insurance policy in case things go wrong.
Last edited by thischarmingman; 27/11/2009 at 5:54 PM.
I haven't eaten fish for about 8 years...
Just a few essential tips for you (if you are going to China):
Bring some toilet paper!!!! Many Chinese toilets leave an awful lot to be desired, even in highly rated hotels. And many dont include toilet paper. If you are stuck in a big city and need to go then head to Mcdonalds or KFc as they regularly clean their toilets! This really will shock you!!!
Dont worry about lack of manners! The Chinese can appear to be very rude (opposite to the Japanese). The men constantly spit (pollution?), and people never queue for anything (use your elbows). At the restaurant you will also see all manner of things happening - But at heart the Chinese are kind and a very welcoming people - but you have to remember that under Mao good manners were seen as something the elite did and he tried to stamp out politeness in society - seeing it as bourgeois
Chinese restaurants Excellent, its where its all happening. Irish people go to pubs to get merry and have a good time, the Chinese do the same in restaurants (in fact the bars are often empty!). They sing karaoke in them, they play drinking games, they chat, they go with friends, they have a good time. Also they eat some food!! And its true what they say - they do eat anything and everything.
If you are in a a biggish city then you have to get to "Little Fat Sheep", a famous hot pot restaurant (even have one in Toronto and London). Hot pot is an experience
Everything is cheap! Dvds, Cds, computer games all costing pence, and good quality clothes for next to nothing. You can also get real designer stuff very cheaply too as most of it is made in china anyway and they tend to flood the local markets with anything they over produced (got to love the Chinese)
Anyway if I think of anything else I will post it _ I was in China on and off for over 4 years and I loved the place, no two days were evre the same, and the Chinese people are mad as hatters, but kind at heart, and they treat foreigners very well.
If you are coming from Mongolia - the Gobi desert is good, but it might not be the back packer experience as there is pretty much nothing to do in Mongolia only look at the desert and plains
Almaty would be better. Interesting to see if you go through Xinjiang (the old silk route - misspelled), where the recent rioting was.
Thanks for the advice, especially that last one by Bennocelt which I missed); for those of you who have been in China, did you travel by train? Is it easy enough to get a hop-on, hop off ticket travelling west to east? And do many people (especially in W. China) speak English? One other thing, do any of your know is it possible to pick up a Chinese visa in Dublin in January or February for use in June?
We originally were going to go through Iran and Turkmenistan to Uzbekistan but given the recent problems in Iran we're going to fly Istanbul-Tashkent (via Riga!!). We're still going to get the visa for Iran (they have an embassy in Blackrock!) but we'll make up our minds about whether to actually enter the country on the day.
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