Yes
No
Connor Wickham qualifies for ROI in precisley the same way that he qualifies for NI - through his Irish / Northern Irish born father. I am amazed that this is a genuine question as Worthington's move for Wickham has received massive media coverage and generated significant discussion on OWC.If I didn't know you better EG I would think you were trying to start an argument.
What about post #80? I doubt Kitson would change his mind. He's one of the more balanced/articulate footballers around and he basically said he doesn't feel Irish so why would he play for us.Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Billy Mehmet might as well declare for Turkey. He has never been in the frame for us and Turkey are currently in the process of replacing a lot of veterans.
That was the posting equivalent of a biting tackle in the first minute. Third Policeman letting EG know he's there, Bill.
Quoting years at random since 1975
Indeed. From 2009: "If Giovanni Trapattoni or anyone from the FAI gave me a call then the first thing I'd say would be 'yes, I'd be delighted to come on board'. "When I was at Reading, I regularly told Kevin Doyle and Stephen Hunt about my availability. We didn't go into huge detail about it - because it's not their responsibility to pick the team."
Really?
The normal basis for establishing a player's "nationality" according to FIFA is Article 15. Under this Article, Wickham qualifies for England (obviously).
However, having been born in the UK, Wickham is (evidently) British. As such, he is also defined by FIFA as a player whose "Nationality [entitles him] to represent more than one Association" (Article 16). Obviously the four Associations he may therefore theoretically represent are the FA, FAW, SFA and IFA.
However, in order to be eligible for any of them, Art.16 also specifies that he must satisfy one of the following:
(a ) "He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(b ) "His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(c ) "His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(d ) "He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years."
Therefore Wickham is "English" under (a ), but also "Northern Irish" under (b ).
Of course, since his father is from NI, Wickham is also eligible to apply for, and would doubtless receive, Irish Nationality.
However, he does not satisfy the basic eligibility test for the ROI, imposed by FIFA in Article 15, since he was not in receipt of Irish Nationality automatically from birth (as, say, Darron Gibson was).
Therefore in applying for Irish nationality, Wickham would be defined by FIFA as being someone who is making "Acquiring a new nationality" (Article 17).
And Article 17 states:
"Any Player who refers to art.15 par.1 to assume a new nationality... ... shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
(a ) "He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(b ) "His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(c ) "His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(d ) "He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association"
Therefore, unless you consider Northern Ireland to be part of the "territory" of the FAI, as I read FIFA's Articles either Wickham's mother, or one of his grandparents, will need to have been born in the Republic of Ireland in order to represent the FAI.
And I have not seen any reports to that effect.
He's not going to change from England anyway. You'll never see him in a green jersey, north or south.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/b...2004/a3804.pdf
Article 6 - a child of somebody born in Northern Ireland has exactly the same entitlement to Irish nationality as somebody born in Northern Ireland. The law is very clear.
Besides, the precedent has been set with Alex Bruce.
edit: and Wickham will play for England so it's a moot point really
Vinnie [Jones] still holds the world record for the quickest booking, according to the FA's David Barber -a distinction he "earned" after a foul on Dane Whitehouse three seconds into Chelsea's game against Sheffield United in 1992. "I must have been too high, too wild, too strong or too early, because, after three seconds, I could hardly have been too bloody late!" remembers Vinnie fondly in his autobiography.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...wsstory.sport6
No doubt under ROI law, Wickham is entitled to the same Irish Nationality as eg Darron Gibson. But the key word is "entitled" i.e. he does not (yet) have Irish nationality until he exercises that entitlement. (Gibson had it automatically since birth).
Therefore, should Wickham ever decide to exercise his entitlement, he would surely be considered by FIFA to be "acquiring a new nationality" (Article 17). And as I pointed out above, merely being in successful acquisition of a new nationality is not enough, a player needs to satisfy at least one of the four additional criteria (birthplace, ancestry, residence etc), all of which specify that the requisite connection must be with the territory of the relevant Association.
I have never seen exactly how Bruce qualified for the FAI (nor why the FAI ever wanted him, for that matter!). But in any case, FIFA's Articles on Eligibility have been amended many times since his case, so any subsequent applicant must satisfy the criteria in force at the time of the application.
As the youngest player to play a full, competitive match for Ipswich, you may well be correct.
However, I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the player whose record he broke playing in a Tottenham shirt on more occasions than I care to recall. And he, too, had been touted as a "surefire England international" when he first made his breakthrough at Portman Road:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Dozzell
Ah, OK. I see what you mean. It's not entirely clear that FIFA sees it that way. The eligibility of Bruce and Magnay would suggest that FIFA has taken the common sense approach and decided that the principle that makes Gibson eligible also makes Wickham's father eligible, and therefore his son.
The articles have been amended but FIFA's stance on Northern-born players' eligibility has remained constant. Accepting that the FAI can unconditionally draw players from any part of the island of Ireland, it's hardly a stretch to conclude that Northern Ireland is included in the FAI's "territory."I have never seen exactly how Bruce qualified for the FAI (nor why the FAI ever wanted him, for that matter!). But in any case, FIFA's Articles on Eligibility have been amended many times since his case, so any subsequent applicant must satisfy the criteria in force at the time of the application.
I saw Dozzell score a fantastic header to beat Wimbledon at White Hart Lane. I was devastated because Marcus Gayle was my favourite playerAs the youngest player to play a full, competitive match for Ipswich, you may well be correct.
However, I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the player whose record he broke playing in a Tottenham shirt on more occasions than I care to recall. And he, too, had been touted as a "surefire England international" when he first made his breakthrough at Portman Road:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Dozzell
I'm being lazy here, but was Bruce not deemed eligible under the old rules? In Magnay's case, it remains unclear as to whether he was even considering changing and therefore I think his eligibility for the FAI has not been clarified, so he may not actually be eligible.
Who knows. It was Stan that capped him so there you go. He's still young so he might yet learn how to play the game but it's likely his legacy as an Irish international will be his coinage of the phrase "no disrespect to Northern Ireland but.......".
Last edited by ifk101; 27/09/2010 at 3:43 PM.
© Alex Bruce
™ Shane Duffy
Last edited by Sullivinho; 27/09/2010 at 6:44 PM.
But Wickham wouldn't have to apply for Irish nationality just so long as he is the son of an Irish national born on the island of Ireland: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/ca...rth_or_descent
He is considered an automatic Irish citizen from birth. Therefore, Wickham qualifies for us under article 15. I'm sure we've covered this before.
I think Ealing Green may have some spare time on his hands.
Better to let he do his thang.
question about citizenship. i hold an irish passport through my father being born in ireland. i was born in the usa if i do have children and they are not born in eire are they infact citizens aswell? or will they have to apply via the grandfather rule because now there grandfather(my dad) was irish born. what will be my childrens status?
It depends. Are they any good at football?
According to this, they are entitled to citizenship, but you have to register their births.
You can't spell failure without FAI
In citizenship terms, there's no such thing as the grandfather rule. That was a makey up football term.
John83's link covers wahat you need (Foreign Birth Registration)
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
---
New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
As John 83 said, you will have to register their births. My daugher was born in Japan but is automatically an Irish citizen due to me being born in Ireland. If she has children in the future, she'll have to register them for citizenship (if they're born outside Ireland of course). Interestingly, as long as they are registered before they themselves have children, they can also register those children as Irish citizens. It could theoretically go on generation after generation.
Here we go again! The same debate under a different thread. Hoops1, in relation to your comment that it is embarrassing to see players who played for other countries play for us, who is embarrassing to? This is the new world order. I have never felt embarrassed or cared when Senegal or Algeria, among others, were sucessfully competing in the WC. In fact I would say good on them for using their diaspora to ensure qualification.
We are a tiny nation supporting three football codes which is more than most European countries and we do pretty well in rugby and we are going okay in soccer. We must use our massive diaspora to help us whenever we can. I would rather we qualify for major tournaments than sit at home feeling that we somehow have stuck to our principles, whatever they might be.
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