Jamie O'Hara

**Murfinator** · 20/10/2009, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by Polster

If their grand mother or grand father was Irish, I think they have every right, they still have Irish blood in them.

I don't agree with that, it sounds like false patriotism in ones head much like the millions of Americans every March who declare themselves being Irish through and through as they consider Leprechauns and wearing green all the time as somehow being representative of the country. It's nonsense.

To represent a country is to represent the people in it. You should have a connection with them and the land, your fondest memories in life should stem from there and you should understand the culture inside out. It doesn't matter whether you were born in Cork or Brazil, if you can say those things about Ireland I'll accept you as Irish. If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.

**stiffler** · 20/10/2009, 5:10 PM

The Gibson case is different in that he qualifies directly as an Irish passport holder by being born on this island...hence he is naturally born irish!!

the likes of Cahill etc only qualify through (grand) parentage. Its obvious their links to this island are not as strong as someone born here! never-the-less, they have the same right to represent this country should they wish to do so (and the management consider them suitable for the task!)

**Razors left peg** · 20/10/2009, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Murfinator

I don't agree with that, it sounds like false patriotism in ones head much like the millions of Americans every March who declare themselves being Irish through and through as they consider Leprechauns and wearing green all the time as somehow being representative of the country. It's nonsense.

To represent a country is to represent the people in it. You should have a connection with them and the land, your fondest memories in life should stem from there and you should understand the culture inside out. It doesn't matter whether you were born in Cork or Brazil, if you can say those things about Ireland I'll accept you as Irish. If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.

Ive said it on this site before, but I have alot of relations in Coventry and Birmingham whos Grandparents are from Galway, and if you told any of them that they didnt have the right to regard themselves as Irish they would be extremely annoyed to say the least. Ive been to Ireland games with a couple of them and they are more passionate than most of the people that go to games.

**seanfhear** · 20/10/2009, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Ive said it on this site before, but I have alot of relations in Coventry and Birmingham whos Grandparents are from Galway, and if you told any of them that they didnt have the right to regard themselves as Irish they would be extremely annoyed to say the least. Ive been to Ireland games with a couple of them and they are more passionate than most of the people that go to games.

I think for some people to appreciate people like your relatives they would have to go through the Irish immigrant experience themselves. Many second generation people born abroad consider themselves Irish or certainly have strong Irish roots.
Having been an immigrant myself I have seen that many people that some Irish people do not consider Irish because they have not been born in Ireland do consider themselves Irish and some of them are more aware of their Irish heritage than some Irish people.

We do not have a large enough pool of talent to reject players that can qualify to play for us out of hand.

I would prefer to have "new players" on board at the start of a qualifying campaign and would be slow to draft in new players until that campaign is over.

**Polster** · 21/10/2009, 7:18 AM

Originally Posted by Murfinator

I don't agree with that, it sounds like false patriotism in ones head much like the millions of Americans every March who declare themselves being Irish through and through as they consider Leprechauns and wearing green all the time as somehow being representative of the country. It's nonsense.

To represent a country is to represent the people in it. You should have a connection with them and the land, your fondest memories in life should stem from there and you should understand the culture inside out. It doesn't matter whether you were born in Cork or Brazil, if you can say those things about Ireland I'll accept you as Irish. If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.

Normally I will respect most opinions on here, but the above I take as very insulting and ignorant. Maybe you have been lucky enough not to have had family forced to emigrate in search of work, sending money home to Ireland to support others in a lot of cases. Like numerous others I have plenty of cousins outside of Ireland, that not only have they strong roots, but they make it their business to understand Irish history, culture and everything else Irish. I am now working in London and have a young son here. Although he carrys the cockney accent he is very much proud of his irish background. This is not something I have had to even push with him, as he knows where his Nana, cousins, uncles and aunties all come from. You saying you wouldn't want any one in these cases really does show a very high level of arrogance and ignorance towards Irish history in general and to those families who have needed to move.

I hate to repeat myself, but by your thinking, we would not have had so many of the Irish legends we did in the past, and I don't know what age you are, but if you are old enough to remember the good times under Jack, I presume you did not want any of the players there that had qualified under ancestory laws?

Without getting to political on this, but to just reinforce my point of why your comments are both insulting and ignorant, I leave you with three great men recognised as such in Irish History...

Eamonn De Valera - Born NewYork to an Irish Mother and Cuban Father
Big Jim Larkin - Born Liverpool to Irish Parents
James Connolly - Born Edinburgh to Irish Parents

**Pauro 76** · 21/10/2009, 7:34 AM

Martin Kelly made his debut for Liverpool last night and was one of their best players, any Irish in him?

**Polster** · 21/10/2009, 7:59 AM

Originally Posted by Pauro 76

Martin Kelly made his debut for Liverpool last night and was one of their best players, any Irish in him?

I am fairly sure he does have some Irish background, but he has been playing for England at under age level. Hopefully Trap and the boys are checking up all these options though. Obviously not for now, but worth making enquiries for down the line.

**paul_oshea** · 21/10/2009, 8:18 AM

You can add Michael Davitt - not born abroad but raised there - (indirectly phrasing the term "boycott") to that list too polster.

With a name like martin kelly he has to be at least 3rd generation but he has played u20 for england.

**gspain** · 21/10/2009, 10:53 AM

Many of the most loyal and passionate of our fans have one thing in common too with the likes of Kevin Kilbane and Gary Breen - they were born abroad too. It doesn't make them any less Irish.

The numbers travelling away would be reduced considerably if you exclude the London Irish in particular.

**Duggie** · 21/10/2009, 11:10 AM

im thinking of robbie keane having his son born in ireland and saying on the late late.."aah i couldnt have me son playing for england pat".

**ifk101** · 21/10/2009, 11:33 AM

I don't have any problem with second generation Irish playing for Ireland, in fact I more than welcome them. However I strongly believe that these players need to demonstrate that they want to play for us and that we are their first choice - re: Kilbane. Yes it is a romantic viewpoint but international football is not about exploiting the eligibilty rules, it's about representing the nation you identify with.

**Greenbod** · 21/10/2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Murfinator

If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.

You'll be requesting will you?.............Well you'll quite rightly be told to shove your request up your insular arse.

**Wolfie** · 21/10/2009, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by seanfhear

I would prefer to have "new players" on board at the start of a qualifying campaign and would be slow to draft in new players until that campaign is over.

Excellent point. It would certainly help to weed out those that had a grain of genuine interest in playing for the country.

**SilkCut** · 21/10/2009, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Murfinator

I don't agree with that, it sounds like false patriotism in ones head much like the millions of Americans every March who declare themselves being Irish through and through as they consider Leprechauns and wearing green all the time as somehow being representative of the country. It's nonsense.

To represent a country is to represent the people in it. You should have a connection with them and the land, your fondest memories in life should stem from there and you should understand the culture inside out. It doesn't matter whether you were born in Cork or Brazil, if you can say those things about Ireland I'll accept you as Irish. If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.

This is a bit sad mate. By your reckoning my kids could never represent Ireland. I live in Australia, have a French partner and realistically our kids won't spend too much time in either France or Ireland. $2000 per ticket adds up after all. They will however speak both French and Irish, they will have Irish or French passports along with their Australian passports. They would have all three but Australian law only allows for 2. I love Australia for all that it has given me and for all that it will give my children but it would break my heart to see my children represent anyone other than Ireland, the only way they will represent France is if they are girls (already agreed with my partner!)
Should my son turn out to be the next Robbie Keane or Brian O'Driscoll will you feel better seeing him pull on the Gold of Australia or will you be on this forum denouncing him as a traitor, or as so many other posters here do, will you be asking "any Irish in him?". I am sure there are many other people on here in the same situation as me, all of whom would probably feel the same. Maybe when you are a bit older or more well travelled you will change your opinion.

**Noelys Guitar** · 21/10/2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by SilkCut

This is a bit sad mate. By your reckoning my kids could never represent Ireland. I live in Australia, have a French partner and realistically our kids won't spend too much time in either France or Ireland. $2000 per ticket adds up after all. They will however speak both French and Irish, they will have Irish or French passports along with their Australian passports. They would have all three but Australian law only allows for 2. I love Australia for all that it has given me and for all that it will give my children but it would break my heart to see my children represent anyone other than Ireland, the only way they will represent France is if they are girls (already agreed with my partner!)
Should my son turn out to be the next Robbie Keane or Brian O'Driscoll will you feel better seeing him pull on the Gold of Australia or will you be on this forum denouncing him as a traitor, or as so many other posters here do, will you be asking "any Irish in him?". I am sure there are many other people on here in the same situation as me, all of whom would probably feel the same. Maybe when you are a bit older or more well travelled you will change your opinion.

Great post.

**M@ttitude** · 21/10/2009, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by SilkCut

This is a bit sad mate. By your reckoning my kids could never represent Ireland. I live in Australia, have a French partner and realistically our kids won't spend too much time in either France or Ireland. $2000 per ticket adds up after all. They will however speak both French and Irish, they will have Irish or French passports along with their Australian passports. They would have all three but Australian law only allows for 2. I love Australia for all that it has given me and for all that it will give my children but it would break my heart to see my children represent anyone other than Ireland, the only way they will represent France is if they are girls (already agreed with my partner!)
Should my son turn out to be the next Robbie Keane or Brian O'Driscoll will you feel better seeing him pull on the Gold of Australia or will you be on this forum denouncing him as a traitor, or as so many other posters here do, will you be asking "any Irish in him?". I am sure there are many other people on here in the same situation as me, all of whom would probably feel the same. Maybe when you are a bit older or more well travelled you will change your opinion.

Brilliant!

**SkStu** · 21/10/2009, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by SilkCut

This is a bit sad mate. By your reckoning my kids could never represent Ireland. I live in Australia, have a French partner and realistically our kids won't spend too much time in either France or Ireland. $2000 per ticket adds up after all. They will however speak both French and Irish, they will have Irish or French passports along with their Australian passports. They would have all three but Australian law only allows for 2. I love Australia for all that it has given me and for all that it will give my children but it would break my heart to see my children represent anyone other than Ireland, the only way they will represent France is if they are girls (already agreed with my partner!)
Should my son turn out to be the next Robbie Keane or Brian O'Driscoll will you feel better seeing him pull on the Gold of Australia or will you be on this forum denouncing him as a traitor, or as so many other posters here do, will you be asking "any Irish in him?". I am sure there are many other people on here in the same situation as me, all of whom would probably feel the same. Maybe when you are a bit older or more well travelled you will change your opinion.

couldnt have said it better - and scarily similar to the deals struck with my wife - in my case swap Australia for Canada and France for Croatia.

Only one team my sons will be playing for.

Great post Silkcut.

**Morbo** · 22/10/2009, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Great post.

Agreed, if there was a POTM on this board that would get my vote.

**paul_oshea** · 22/10/2009, 8:27 AM

Silkcut it might break your heart but he might still well do it, ive found australians even second generation to be very ego-centric, maybe thats a bit strong a word but given its relative isolation to this part of the world they are very much an us and them which is demonstrated particularly in the rugby and international rules.

Anyway great post!

**lopez** · 22/10/2009, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Murfinator

To represent a country is to represent the people in it. You should have a connection with them and the land, your fondest memories in life should stem from there and you should understand the culture inside out. It doesn't matter whether you were born in Cork or Brazil, if you can say those things about Ireland I'll accept you as Irish. If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.

So why not set the same standards to the players born in Ireland? How many of them know their own country's history, and I'll leave it to the history of their state rather than their nation?

It's clear some people on this forum haven't a clue about their own history, coming up with sh*t like Gibson is foreign born being born in Derry. You know what I say to people who start up about my accent, because that's the only thing that separates us: The people who fought for you to have the right to follow your very own country weren't always born in Ireland. People like Eamon DeVelera, Robert Erskine Childers, Constance Markiewicz, James Connolly, who put their necks on the line. People like London born Joe Good, Collins' right hand man that was airbrushed from his biopic by Neil Jordan because obviously an English accent would cause too much confusion to the Irish public, who went on to become an Irish ambassador. Or his friends who were born in London and who Michael Collins threatened anyone in Frongoch if they disclosed their place of birth, as this would mean they would be packed off to the first world war. Or those that never got to Frongoch and were forced to dress in British uniform, who then ripped off their uniform knowing that they'd probably be shot for cowardice or desertion. (They were kicked out instead, as even the British Military reckoned that making them fight would be dangerous, while shooting them would give Ireland more martyrs).

To paraphrase the Italian manager of the team that won the 1934 World Cup: If you are entitled to fight for Ireland, you're entitled to play for Ireland. End of!