Kenny's Seanad solo run sparks fury in FG

**Ringo** · 19/10/2009, 6:37 AM

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...g-1917603.html

FINE Gael TDs and senators have been left fuming after they were left out of the loop on Enda Kenny's proposals to abolish the Seanad and reduce the number of TDs.

Some of the party's representatives last night claimed they had only found out about the plans to cut TD numbers by 20 and completely eliminate all 60 senators in a text message from party headquarters on Saturday afternoon.

Others said they had heard rumours of the planned announcement just 24 hours earlier but the matter had never been raised through the "proper channels".

On Saturday afternoon, just hours before Mr Kenny took to the podium to announce that his planned Oireachtas reform would save �150m, TDs and senators were delivered a copy of his speech by email.

Kenny shooting himself in the foot again. Most people at this stage would see little merit in keeping the Seanad & reducing the number of TD's seems sensible.

**Macy** · 19/10/2009, 7:58 AM

He's still trying to recover from Gilmore blasting him out of the water with O'Donoghue. It seems a bit mad when after the locals results they'll be dominant in the upper house after the next elections, regardless of what happens in the D�il.

Bar being peed off at being lectured to by totally unelected knobs like Harris on waste and pay, I'm fairly undecided on the Senate. It has served a benefit on occasions with issues like contraception.

**dahamsta** · 19/10/2009, 9:36 AM

I'd like reform in the Senate. I think the idea of abolition is nonsensical.

**Sheridan** · 19/10/2009, 9:44 AM

Abolishing a rubber stamp institution which drains public finances and merely serves as an incubation chamber and retirement home for people who are too incompetent to get elected for FF and FG in rural constituencies makes perfect sense to me. Would also be the end of Senator Shane Ross.

**dahamsta** · 19/10/2009, 10:05 AM

I've changed my mind in light of that insightful comment. The Dail and the Cabinet are full of incompetents and morons too, so we should abolish those, and bring back Bertie as a dictator. Yay Ireland!

**Macy** · 19/10/2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Abolishing a rubber stamp institution

It would be less of a rubber stamping institution without the taoiseach's nominees.

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Would also be the end of Senator Shane Ross.

Speaking of people too incompetent to get elected for FG....

**Sheridan** · 19/10/2009, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

I've changed my mind in light of that insightful comment. The Dail and the Cabinet are full of incompetents and morons too, so we should abolish those, and bring back Bertie as a dictator. Yay Ireland!

Those are people we're stupid enough to elect. The Seanad is full of people who are so stupid that even we are not stupid enough to elect them. It serves absolutely no purpose. In fact, it actively undermines democracy by fostering the continued development of a political class.

**bennocelt** · 19/10/2009, 1:17 PM

Two words - Donnie Cassidy

**Sheridan** · 19/10/2009, 1:19 PM

I think you'll find that's three words (Donie ****ing Cassidy.)

**mypost** · 19/10/2009, 1:25 PM

It is a a+e for failed politicians, it should be in light of the economic climate, suspended for the foreseeable future.

The Dail sits for usually 23 hours a week, the Senate barely half that. They sat for one day last week, officially for a mark of respect for a deceased member, but in May this year, it was suspended one day for a golf outing.

It's simply not worth continuing with these days.

**John83** · 19/10/2009, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Those are people we're stupid enough to elect. The Seanad is full of people who are so stupid that even we are not stupid enough to elect them. It serves absolutely no purpose. In fact, it actively undermines democracy by fostering the continued development of a political class.

You want to end the political class? Limit D�il service to one term.

**seand** · 19/10/2009, 1:46 PM

Whatever about the usefulness (or otherwise) of the Seanad its compostion is ludicrous and undemocratic as it stands.

**dahamsta** · 19/10/2009, 1:50 PM

Of course it is, but suggesting that as a reason for disbanding it entirely is just plain take-my-ball-home childish. The Presidency is another ridiculous rubber-stamp office, if anything needs to be discarded, it's that. But it shouldn't, because democracies should have cheques and balances.

adam

**Sheridan** · 19/10/2009, 1:57 PM

The reason for retaining the presidency is to provide a nominally apolitical head of state to represent the country for ceremonial purposes. The Senate is specifically constituted to prevent it from providing any kind of check to the executive power. We have a supreme court and a president to scrutinise issues of constitutionality, the Senate does sod all except function as a sort of undeclared honours system.

**John83** · 19/10/2009, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Of course it is, but suggesting that as a reason for disbanding it entirely is just plain take-my-ball-home childish. The Presidency is another ridiculous rubber-stamp office, if anything needs to be discarded, it's that. But it shouldn't, because democracies should have cheques and balances.

adam

Deliberate pun?

**dahamsta** · 19/10/2009, 2:24 PM

Freudian slip.

**Dodge** · 19/10/2009, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

But it shouldn't, because democracies should have cheques and balances

Last time the Seanad actually checked the progress of any bill? Its only purpose is to fill seats on Oirechtais committees when TDs don't want to.

I get the feeling Kenny is making a play for "we hate politicians" vote after Gilmore outoxed him on John O'Donoghue

**dahamsta** · 19/10/2009, 4:26 PM

See my first post on the subject. I know we had fun times making everything disposable during the boom, but you can actually repair things you know.

**OneRedArmy** · 19/10/2009, 5:02 PM

I like the idea of an upper house.

I just don't like the one we have.

Never mind its lack of activity, its so undemocratic in its representation that even Kim Jong Il and Hugo Chavez would baulk at it.

They need to start from scratch IMO. On a semi-related theme, saw/read a good article/interview where someone was saying that the whole constitutional framework and content was ripe for review.