Republic of Ireland V Italy - Saturday, 10th October 2009 - World Cup 2010 Q

**Den Perry** · 12/10/2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by P�d Von Tirpitz

(Home) International fans anywhere aren't the greatest for songs. It's not a regular crowd, you've a few matches a year which is not enough to build up the kind of familiarity you need for a good batch of songs. And, yes, in Ireland we do have a majority of people who aren't used to supporting teams, but I think that's the minor cause here.
What I'm looking for at Ireland games is general rousing, shouting and noisiness and the crowd were grand on that front the other night.

Put 'em under pressure is a great tune, and I don't really see a problem with the ole ole stuff. However, in the past I have criticised the Ole Ole brigade!!!

At game in Bari the whole stadium was chanting "bo bo bo bo bo bo..." to the tune of the White stripes "seven nation army" and it was incredible...intimidating yet lighthearted at the same time. I remember Shels playing away to Steua Bucharest a few years back and the whole stadium was chanting to the tune of a Scooter song, "Maria" for the whole game and it sounded deadly. Anybody rem that?

**Stuttgart88** · 12/10/2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by P�d Von Tirpitz

(Home) International fans anywhere aren't the greatest for songs. It's not a regular crowd, you've a few matches a year which is not enough to build up the kind of familiarity you need for a good batch of songs. And, yes, in Ireland we do have a majority of people who aren't used to supporting teams, but I think that's the minor cause here.
What I'm looking for at Ireland games is general rousing, shouting and noisiness and the crowd were grand on that front the other night.

Agree.

Fans watch their club week in week out and chants originate & evolve all the time, often about a particular player. International football just isn't conducive to clever, witty or spontaneous songs.

**geysir** · 12/10/2009, 10:48 AM

Chants of DE-FENSE DE-FENSE might be appropriate.

**shakermaker1982** · 12/10/2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

Chants of DE-FENSE DE-FENSE might be appropriate.

I think I was the only one shouting ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK in the Cusack stand when Gilardino got the equalizer

.

**paul_oshea** · 12/10/2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

He is talking about picking up a yellow card. He means that the only way he will get a yellow card is back chat to the ref. Read more books Paul.

could well be neil, however the rte.ie website has it completely out of context, and posted the quote in relation to him playing on wednesday and whether or not trap was going to bother playing him as it said he was duly unconcerned - i gathered in relation to him reaching 100 caps, as what had been said. however i might well have missed something, still wrecked from saturday!

"Keeper Shay Given, who like Kevin Kilbane would complete 100 senior international caps if selected, is one of them, but his manager would not be unduly concerned about playing him.

He said: 'If a goalkeeper doesn't talk too much, he shouldn't have a problem.' "

Ya i completely missed hte paragraph beforehand for some reason, which mentioned yellow cards!!! haha im a dope!

**shakermaker1982** · 12/10/2009, 11:50 AM

I still can't bear to watch the replay but until the 90th minute it was a magical night. I was so proud of the team and they sweated blood out there. The passion and commitment is back in abundance and for the first 20 minutes Italy didn't know what hit them. Italy showed their class in midfield and Pirlo just oozed class but I thought we gave them a game and if we were a little bit more street smart we'd have won the game and let me remind Dunphy that this was against the REIGNING WORLD CHAMPIONS. I pray to God that nightmarish experience will come in useful over the next few weeks/months/years. 2-1 up with 3 to go = waste time, kick the ball out as hard as you can, roll around like Drogba when you get a knock, talk to the ref about the weather......

Given - 6.
Kilbane - 7
O'Shea - 8/9. Outstanding.
Dunne - 7
St Ledger - 8
McGeady - 7
Whelan - 7
Andrews - 6
Lawrence - 8
Keane - 6
Doyle - 6

Doyle and Lawrence were out on their feet because of the effort they put in. Keano ran round like a loon for 90 minutes and never stopped running without any real reward. Our defence resorted to the long stuff (again) because there is no simple option on. Tiredness had a part in this (less movement from midfielders towards the end because they were chasing Pirlo and co for long sections of the match) but we've got to try and pass and move a bit more and ensure that the player in possession has options. I'm proud of the team and am confident we can qualify but we have to tighten up. The away goals rule could come back to haunt us if we are not careful.

**SuperDave** · 12/10/2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Doyle and Lawrence were out on their feet because of the effort they put in. Keano ran round like a loon for 90 minutes and never stopped running without any real reward. Our defence resorted to the long stuff (again) because there is no simple option on. Tiredness had a part in this (less movement from midfielders towards the end because they were chasing Pirlo and co for long sections of the match) but we've got to try and pass and move a bit more and ensure that the player in possession has options. I'm proud of the team and am confident we can qualify but we have to tighten up. The away goals rule could come back to haunt us if we are not careful.

I agree Pirlo was magnificent (why was Andrews not on him like glue.... oh wait, he tried to and Pirlo just turned away from him every time, a la Paul Scholes), but I actually thought we were playing fewer long balls than usual. Whelan in particular was showing for more balls in the middle of the pitch than I remember in previous games and I was actually pleased with what I thought was an improvement on previous performances in this regard.

**shakermaker1982** · 12/10/2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by SuperDave

I agree Pirlo was magnificent (why was Andrews not on him like glue.... oh wait, he tried to and Pirlo just turned away from him every time, a la Paul Scholes), but I actually thought we were playing fewer long balls than usual. Whelan in particular was showing for more balls in the middle of the pitch than I remember in previous games and I was actually pleased with what I thought was an improvement on previous performances in this regard.

I was thinking more second half when it seemed we started to go more the aerial route. We were fine in the first half but the second half was a whole different ball game. Even when we did try and go short it went astray. I don't know if it was nerves, tiredness or what but we should be having a higher passing completion rate than 72.1%.

I recall Pirlo just stealing the ball off one of his own players (might have been De Rossi) in the second half and thought "uh oh his tail is up - we're in trouble".

**paul_oshea** · 12/10/2009, 12:49 PM

its interesting to note as well, that some on here suggested against cyrpus, that trap told us just to hoof the ball and thta was the game plan. I couldn't see how that could be a gameplan, but trap mentioned the last day that we needed to hold onto the ball for longer and look for passes. He said we didnt retain the ball well enough, so clearly it has never been his intention for wheland and andrews not to come look for the ball.

I think on away goals we are going to get caught, and someone said to me that they are going to give the seeded teams the advantage of a second home leg as they are drawn first, is this true? I cant see how they could get away with this....

I notice that when a new player has a good game, he gets a marking extra than maybe he should or that. I thought lawrence played well but im not sure he played as well as he thought or whether its a case of 1st match syndrome for we fans, where everytime he does something we automatically make a mental note and say oh thats deadly he is really getting stuck in, whereas when a player has been around a good while we just take it for granted and its not noticed as much.

**punkrocket** · 12/10/2009, 12:56 PM

www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/12/giovanni-trappatoni-ireland-play-offs

In case anyone was still wondering about yellow cards carrying over to the play offs, it seems that they do.

**SwanVsDalton** · 12/10/2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I think on away goals we are going to get caught, and someone said to me that they are going to give the seeded teams the advantage of a second home leg as they are drawn first, is this true? I cant see how they could get away with this....

There will be a separate draw to determine home and away. We'll see what happens there.

**Wolfie** · 12/10/2009, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

.............. someone said to me that they are going to give the seeded teams the advantage of a second home leg as they are drawn first, is this true? I cant see how they could get away with this....

Do you mean it was suggested that the seeded team would be guaranteed being at home for the 2nd leg of the play-off tie?

Couldn't be true. What next? Each seeded team will start the tie 1 nil up with an extra goal keeper and triple points on their Dunnes Stores value card.

**shakermaker1982** · 12/10/2009, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I notice that when a new player has a good game, he gets a marking extra than maybe he should or that. I thought lawrence played well but im not sure he played as well as he thought or whether its a case of 1st match syndrome for we fans, where everytime he does something we automatically make a mental note and say oh thats deadly he is really getting stuck in, whereas when a player has been around a good while we just take it for granted and its not noticed as much.

Lawrence had end product, worked hard, kept it simple and kept Grosso quiet. Mission accomplished and worth a 7 at least out of 10 at least. McGeady looked bright in bursts but dwelled on the ball far too long at certain times when he needed to get a cross in. Two wingers but I thought Lawrence had the better game. I wouldn't give extra marks just because it was Liam's third cap but was impressed with how he played particularly given the circumstances (Third cap and against Italy).

**Kingdom** · 12/10/2009, 1:22 PM

Oh the emotions. That was the best atmosphere in Croke Park since we moved. There was a nice tension there from the moment the Irish lads went off the pitch prematch until the last horrible minute.
The crowd were excellent (in the Davin where we were certainly) before there was anything to sing about (if you know what I mean) and while there were lulls [there always are] it was as consistant an atmosphere as I can remember.
As for the team, well you've got to be proud of them. A selection of clubs reading Hull, Wolves, Coventry, Stoke, QPR, Middlesbro, hardly set the world alight, yet these lads put the World Champions through two tough games and remained unbeaten. Kudos lads, kudos.
Going through the team.....
I was disappointed with Shay Given, seemed either nervous, or too worked up for the game. His distribution was quite off for his standards, too balls going over the sideline, and one straight through to Buffon. I felt he could have done better for both goals, while he was suspect under the cross, something he is with club but not normally for country. He also seemed to be having a bit of a tete-a-tete with the Mister towards the end of the 2nd half. The Mister was going apopletic on the line. Perhaps the worst I've seen Shay play for us. Which says a lot as he wasn't brutal.

Back 4. Dealt with most things relatively well. However, Killer was exposed time and again, and how a goal wasn't created from his side I'll never know. Ledger was good, followed his man well, and put in a couple of bullocking tackles. Dunne was Dunne. O'Shea covered well played some nice ball and always gave himself as an out ball for his wide man, Whelan and the centre halves. I wouldn't attach too much blame on him for the equaliser actually, as he challenged for and won a header against his man, it was his imbalance that betrayed him if anything. A replacement for Killer after this campaign must be a priority as its a weak point, and also affects McGeady going forward, as he can be double teamed when there is no overlapping or deep lying threat.
The engine room...
Lawrence was very good, and was a great choice by the Mister. Glenn Whelan had his best game for us. One mental error giving the ball away prior to half time was his only mistake, and its no surprise to me that we became more erratic in our passing when he departed. He had licence to roam more so than before I felt, with the onus on Andrews to hold forth, thus KA wasn't as involved, that said he didn't do a whole lot wrong. He could have stayed on the post for the first goal perhaps.
McGeddy. I thought he was excellent. I really did. Never looked like losing the ball, and if anything, he didn't see enough of it. Appreciate all thats said about his crossing, however, how often does he have more than one player to aim for when he beats a man? Very rarely. He looked world class to me last night, he's stepped up the performances for Ireland in this campaign as far as i'm concerned. I'd love to see him nick his first goal in a play off victory.

Front two....
Little to do offensively, Robbie saw more of the ball, and was very efficient in what he did. Both were excellent in their workrate a charge levelled against Keane on countless occasions, the same couldn't be said last night. Both ran themselves into the ground and penned the back 4 in on numerous times.

Subs:
Leon Best - Looks a real live prospect. Seemed to take a couple of mins to appreciate the surroundings, then he started to lamp into Tagliatelle. And they didn't like it did they? An option from now on.
Martin Rowlands - Didn't do a whole lot, the most bizarre of traps changes in the group without a shadow of a doubt.
Steve Hunt - A 15/30 minute man is what he definitely is. Creates panic, and wreaks havoc when he comes on to a tiring defender. A good weapon to have.

Lawrence and Doyle were shattered by 60mins such was the effort put in. Doyle was barely able to get off the pitch, and it really bugs me to hear goons on the train saying 'he did nothing'.

As for the squad its fair from world beating but some of it is acceptable. We've got two decent keepers, three decent centre halves (one flirting as a decent full back). We're desperately short on the left. If the U21's are meaningless (as would seem to be the case in Givens continued employment) then we should be grooming someone there, because its cost us 4 points already in this group.
Centre midfield is a problem area. If Steven Reid was lining up alongside Whelan or Andrews we'd be laughing. The two lads on their own just aren't strong enough, but in fairness to them they give 100% which is what we ask for. Andy Reid would be an obvious addition, but is he playing centre mid for his club? There are discipline issues there, but if he's willing, then he should be in the squad.
We've good options on the flanks, I'd be happy with 2 of McGeady, Duff, Lawrence, Hunt. Up front the mix is weaker, but curious. Keane and Doyle are obvious, but Andy Keogh as back up to Capt Keane, leaves Folan Best and Hunt as the alternatives to Doyle. Interesting times.

**Duggie** · 12/10/2009, 1:46 PM

I felt he could have done better for both goals

ya i thought this aswell. but hes won games many the time for us so cant complain.

**Stuttgart88** · 12/10/2009, 2:01 PM

Good man Kingdom, I agree with most of that.

I think McGeady is one goal away from being a big player for us. Once he gets one goal from a shot I reckon he'll try shooting more and more. It's easy to criticise his end product but there's so little for him to aim for.

I wasn't nervous about KK defensively as you were, I thought he did well. His distribution from LB was poor though in marked contrast to JOS. KK did play one fantastic crossfield ball to Lawrence who was screaming for it.

Having Steven Reid fit and ready for the play offs will be an immense boost for us.

**NeilMcD** · 12/10/2009, 2:13 PM

Yeah great post Kingdon. Have to agree with you on the Kevin Doyle thing. I was swaying this in Cyprus that taking somebody off is not an assessment of how they have played. IN Cyprus Doyle was much better than Keane but Trap did the right thing by taking Doyle off and not Keane. Lots of people wanted Duff and Keane off at that match but they created the winner. Subs are about how you are going to either go and win the game or hold on to a draw its not an assessment of who has played well and who has not. Doyles does so much running the channels etc that he is often knackered in the same way Aldridge was for us.