Return of the Roy?

[Ozymandias]

I am not a Man U Fan and I am pro Keane returning .....I am pro Keane in so far as his past performances for his country must not be discounted and forgotten because of a sorry episode in saipan.....I do think he wasn't without fault in the whole mess... I am most of all an Irish Football fan and what annoys me the most about the world cup is that we suffered without Keane as everyone has to agree we were a better team when he was in the team rather than out of it and there was an opportunity to go alot further in the world cup...

However If Keane wants to come back does that not mean that he accepts that he owes the fans more and also that he can improve a team and help Brian Kerr blood younger lads and bring them on for two years...Miller,Healy,reid,Michael keane,quinn,thornton etc would develop quicker and better playing alongside keane.

I think some of the vitriol displayed in posts here disgusts and confuses me as none of us have all the facts...we have opinions based on reports but how can you get so deranged and so passionate about something that you don't have all the info about....

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

[lopez]

Originally posted by fergalr
You should get out more pal.

BTW, I find your use of the term "Judas supporters" infantile and offensive.

Infantile? Probably! Offensive? That was the intention. Glad it worked! As for getting out more, 9:20 at night? Have you not heard of pubs...or a girlfriend?

Originally posted by tiktok
...I honestly think I would have come down on his side purely because I felt McCarthy ambushed him with that meeting. As I've said in the past, I've read the Tom Humphries article many times and I still don't see what's wrong with it.

I read it once and thought it was pretty appalling from a captain. A real team player we had here...NOT!!!! Would you expect Ferguson not to 'ambush' Keane if he came out with snide remarks in about himself and his players? Keane cries foul about a 'public' provocation when he does the same the previous day in a newspaper. Such double standards!

Originally posted by tiktok
...Lopez, we could end up outlasting the Celtic thread.
A club captain has to go on a pre-season tour where the club play against quality opposition, if the PLC (boo!hiss! by the way ) decide to turn it into a money spinner, that's not down to Roy. I was at one of those games and watched the others live, believe me when I say, those were proper preseason games and the contrary argument that Roy should have been training in England with the reserves and playing Rochdale just doesn't make sense...at all.

His club's meaningless fixtures take precedence over competitive games for his country. I can't come to any other conclusion.

Originally posted by Ozymandias
I am not a Man U Fan and I am pro Keane returning .....I am pro Keane in so far as his past performances for his country must not be discounted and forgotten because of a sorry episode in saipan.....

Many of us work for employers who are far more incompetent than the FAI or McCarthy (I for one do). If there is a problem, sort it out collectively. For all the talk about how bad the FAI were, how many footballers followed Roy home? Ah, but their standards aren't as high. What sh*te.

Originally posted by Ozymandias
I do think he wasn't without fault in the whole mess... I am most of all an Irish Football fan and what annoys me the most about the world cup is that we suffered without Keane as everyone has to agree we were a better team when he was in the team rather than out of it and there was an opportunity to go alot further in the world cup...

We anti-Keanites (to put it one way) are Irish fans too. Moreover, I have no affiliation with any English club, so this is no Man Ure vendetta on my part, apart from the way that they saw an opportunity to convince Keane to turn his back on his country. If it were Celtic, I'd be as critical of them, and I'm sure we'd get a different queue of apologists.

Of course we suffered in Japan. He was our best player. Had he had a better attitude, instead of someone that gives the impression of needing a large Jack Daniels to sort out him out for a while, then I would be certain we would have done better. Instead, we lost a decent (if not flawless) manager and our best player. I can only hope that the Kerr years will eclipse this sorry affair.

Finally, what happens if Judas comes back? If Kerr can pull this hot iron out of the fire, then he has my full support. Keane's a footballer, not an a*sehole my daughter's brought home. I don't have to go drinking with him (or him with me). We can all live with his return and I for one will give an Irish team with him the same support as before. Hypocrisy? Perhaps. But I think everyone here will agree that this affair has done enough damage and the sight of Irish fans booing one of their own players is something I hope will not happen again.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by lopez
Would you expect Ferguson not to 'ambush' Keane if he came out with snide remarks in about himself and his players? Keane cries foul about a 'public' provocation when he does the same the previous day in a newspaper. Such double standards!

His club's meaningless fixtures take precedence over competitive games for his country. I can't come to any other conclusion.

Ferguson might well have lost the rag (although I doubt it, Keane has often slagged off his team-mates at OT), but he would have taken his captain aside and let him have it privately before opening it out to the floor, which is what McCarthy should have done. You talk about poor bosses, you should never belittle someone in front of their peers like that and if you do, expect a reaction. Keane was out of order after the fact but...Ambush pure and simple.

Originally posted by lopez
His club's meaningless fixtures take precedence over competitive games for his country. I can't come to any other conclusion.

I don't understand the argument here at all. Ferguson has often left Keane on the bench or out of the squad in the last two years when he's felt that his captain needs to be rested (as he was against Leeds at the weekend) but it's daft to suggest that a player should go into the first game of the news season without having tried to achieve match fitness with pre-season friendlies, no player anywhere in the world would do it. The fact that it was a money spinner for the PLC is irrelevant, while there they played competitive games against Celtic, the Mexican champions and Barcelona and trained for a week at a world class facilityon the Nike Campus in Portland.

Everyone comes out with 'surely he could play four games per year with Ireland', Man Utd fans will be wishing he played ten or fifteen games a season more with his club. He's playing well, but he is obviously being rested often at club level, as a Man Utd fan that's one thing i guarentee you. If he was 100% he'd be the first name down on United's team sheet every match.

[eirebhoy]

What exactly did Keane do wrong that he doesn't deserve to come back? The only thing I can think of is he didn't stick to his word when he said he would play for Ireland when Mick was gone (altough he could have said he will not play under Mick again and the papers turned it around). He said that before he had his bad knee problems (which has now settled) so had every right to change his mind. People are really overreacting, Shearer retired for similar reasons and I am sure the English would have him back in a flash.

Keane has made up his mind and is not media stirring (he said its up to Kerr, what more do you want?), this is his way of letting everyone know has made himself available for Ireland. The way he went about it was the best way IMO as he gets to see the fans reactions before he makes his mind up completely.

I am not a United fan or a Cork man and I believe there is definitely a bit of ABU-ism in most of the Anti-Keane's, meaning they are taking the issue more serious then it actually is. I don't know of one Man Utd fan that doesn't back Keane for what he did or didn't do in Saipan. If he played for Liverpool/Arsenal/Forest at the time most of the Irish fans of the club he played would back up Keane. You may say you wouldn't and "ManU fans support Keane because they are this and that" but we are all human. United fans are no different then the rest of us no matter what you may think.

Think of Liam Miller "turning his back" on Celtic, a lot of the Celtic fans hate him for it but most of the Irish fans have nothing against him. Roy Keane "turned his back" on Ireland, a lot of the Irish fans hate him for it but most of the Irish-United fans have nothing against him.

If Keane had done something really serious the Irish-United fans wouldn't forgive him.

[Ozymandias]

originally posted by Lopez Many of us work for employers who are far more incompetent than the FAI or McCarthy (I for one do). If there is a problem, sort it out collectively. For all the talk about how bad the FAI were, how many footballers followed Roy home? Ah, but their standards aren't as high. What sh*te.

I thought they had sorted it out collectively until McCarthy called the now infamous meeting to dredge it up again.....Even Keane is his interview with Tom Humphreys said that he had thrashed it with McCarthy , Bonner and evans and also with a number of the players

Also I find it hard to believe that someone works for employers more incompetent than the FAI..If you do you have my sympathies...christ they must be bruuuuuutalllllll

[lopez]

Originally posted by Ozymandias
I thought they had sorted it out collectively...

And then Judas done the Humphries interview, which his number one fan (sarcasm) Philip Quinn described in the Irish Independent as 'basically...a vote of no-confidence in McCarthy as Irish manager.' The Irish Times had not gone over to subscription and I remember reading the article and feeling disgusted with this blatant attempt to stir things.

Originally posted by Ozymandias
Also I find it hard to believe that someone works for employers more incompetent than the FAI..If you do you have my sympathies...christ they must be bruuuuuutalllllll

They're called London Underground Limited. Recent example of incompetence? No snow on the tracks (all melted) but no trains running due to...snow on the track! I think they helped train the FAI, but as with all these things, you can never be as good as the master.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Conor74
(i) 'never belittle'? You mean you missed the whole Fergie and boot incident?

I take your point however.....
As Lopez brought up Fergie, the boot in Beck's eye incident came right after an appaling Utd loss, it was immediately venting anger in the dressing room, not at Beckham but at the whole team. While it was probably the catalyst for Beckham's departure, it was an accident.
McCarthy sat with the article for a significant period of time before calling the meeting, he had time to think about how he was going to approach Keane and chose the wrong option. If he had lost the rag after reading it the result might have been the same but McCarthy would not have, IMO acted in such a calculating manner to belittle his captain.

Originally posted by Conor74
(ii) It wasnt really a case of training for a week, more like training for a couple of days, flying half way across the US to San Diego, returning, flying to Chicago a couple of days later, returning etc. etc. I have no idea whether it was good, bad or indifferent, but the games took place all over the US and not near the training facilities.

Not quite. I was rightly corrected before over the tour duration, but they were based in Portland for a full week, a 1-hr flight e/w to Seattle for the 1st game. They left Portland on the eve of the second LA game (2-hr south). After that they did play in the Philly and then NY,NY as they moved back across the country.
This I know is fact because I was living in Portland, OR at the time.

[Ozymandias]

lopez...a good few mates of mine worked for london underground....they milked it while they were there..but all agreed the place was full of incompetence......some of the stories they told me were hilarious if they weren't so serious

[Lionel Ritchie]

Originally posted by tiktok
[B]I take your point however.....
As Lopez brought up Fergie, the boot in Beck's eye incident came right after an appaling Utd loss, it was immediately venting anger in the dressing room, not at Beckham but at the whole team. While it was probably the catalyst for Beckham's departure, it was an accident.

I have it on excellent authority that it was no accident. Full force and quite brilliantly aimed throw from the hand straight into the halfwits face -not a frustrated kick at a boot that went array. Hee Hee.

[Éanna]

Originally posted by eirebhoy
What exactly did Keane do wrong that he doesn't deserve to come back?

walked out on his country- what more do you want. most people would have walked over hot coals to play in the world cup and he ****s off cos the training pitch was bumpy- poor roy and whats worse is this media-grabbing attenetion-seeking rubbish he's going with by raising the prospect of a return every few months which helps no-one but his own ego