Return of the Roy?

[Plastic Paddy]

Originally posted by PaulB
Get over your personal vendettas.

It's not us who keep re-opening this debate, but the Dork from Cork and his manipulation of the meeja. Read and re-read many of the comments here. We don't deny his pivotal role in securing us a place at WC2002. We don't even deny that he's the greatest footballer Ireland has ever produced. What we can't stand is the way that he's constantly ****ed us around. By "us", I mean you, me, everyone here, Irish fans, the team and its management.

If you think it's us that need to get over personal vendettas, I suggest you consult the available evidence. I think it's yer man from Maysfield that needs to look to himself on this point.

PP

[only1kilbane]

no your right it wasnt jason mc ateer ! it was steve finnan who created the goal with the superb cross !!

I think we are allowed have personal vendettas with the way he treats his own country !

Look at peole like kilbane who when 14 refused to play for the england under 15s to play for us !

he gives 100% every game and still gets so much stick and your man does what he likes with us plays his selected games and is still considered a hero.

Fair enough he is world class kilbane is not but he has the right attitude to his country !

if only more could be like him

[only1kilbane]

Struggle to hold a team moving in first gear thats a funny one !

Firstly they didnt struggle at all and the central midfield were very quiet for midfield.

You should be happy with kilbane thats the kind of commitment sadly lacking from players like keane who feels he can dictate when he can and cant play for his country !

Tehran was a prime example we were hardly running away with the tie from the first leg but he decides not to play.

Why take back someone who will prob change his mind again and create a bad atmosphere in a sound squad trying to rebuild

[Xlex]

Kilbane was singled out for attention by Keane in the interviews.

I wish a conditional thread was opened up. As far as many here are concerned problems since Brian Kerr took over have make it impossible for RK to return to the Irish squad. Nothing pre-Brian Kerr should ever make it's way back into this arguement. I've read one on boards and it's all about Siapan and why RK should be back.

Roy Keanes interview has pushed and pulled at the notion of a return. I think that if RK is serious about returning then fine. We can't do without him. I think it is RK phone call to make and at 33 he can do it. If Roy Keane isn't making that call, he should shut his face to the media. He's a ****ing arsehole if he playing the media game.

I noticed that Luis Figo reached 100 caps in the friendly against England. Fair play, I thought of Roy Keane and his lost oppertunity.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Xlex
If Roy Keane isn't making that call, he should shut his face to the media. He's a ****ing arsehole if he playing the media game.

All credit to the media, but he was here to promote the guide dogs.... It's hardly his fault that all the media want to ask him about is coming back to play. If you actually listened to what he said, I don't think he was hinting at a return at all - more that the team is doing okay without him and if he did return it could upset the progress that has been made.... Keane's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Would you rather he didn't give up his time to promote Irish Charities, just so the press can't ask him about coming back?

On Tehran, it was more he was advised not to play the first match and could've been pulled no problem by United (he'd missed the few previous United games if I remember correctly). It was a deal done between the Muppet, Keane and United so that he would play in any of the games. Very revisionist view that he just couldn't be bothered, and I don't remember a huge uproar at the time, more relief that he made one of the games.

[tetsujin1979]

Posted this on soccercentral aswell:

There's a lot of PR in there too. they way he said that it's not entirely up to him, that the management and current squad will have a say in it as well.

There's basically 2 circumstances:

1 - He comes back and plays well then everyone will start saying "we would have qualified for Euro 2004 with him".

2 - Imagine for a minute Brian Kerr says it will be discussed by himsledf and the squad. There is a meeting with the squad on their opinions. By a slim majority, it's voted not to have Keano back into the team as it's feared he would be a disruptive influence (or some other reason).

Keane's the hero here - the players are the villains. Cue the media saying "Ireland has turned its back on its best player" and so forth.

Put simply Roy can't lose.

Remember last year when he was over as a public face for the Special Olympics and he refused point blank to talk about any return, indeed anything relating to football? Any now this year as a public face for Shades for a Day he's only too willing to talk about it.

[fergalr]

Boys oh boys - its just like the civil war (y'know the real one, in the 20s). Each side has their atrocities and heros and their own (re)vision of pivotal events.

In 50 years, maybe even our political system will be realigned according to the stand that voters' parents took on the Saipan saga.

In the meantime why don't we all take a chill pill and just reflect on
the 1-0 vs Holland - the last day of unity and comradeship - just like the 1919 Dail......

[tiktok]

Originally posted by Macy
if I remember correctly........It was a deal done between the Muppet, Keane and United so that he would play in any of the games. Very revisionist view that he just couldn't be bothered, and I don't remember a huge uproar at the time, more relief that he made one of the games.

you do, and that sums up the Tehran thing quite well. No-one ever expressed anything other than happiness that he'd be at the first leg until the McCarthy ambush brought it up (but lets not get into Saipan again).

I think the common consensus is something like.....
Great player
Would add to the squad
we're all sick of the speculation
Kill it now, move on without him.

[thecorner]

roy keane was asked questions
all he did was naswered them

not once does it say that he wants to return to irish team

just the press changing quotes again to suit their own headlines and u cant blame roy keane for that

[only1kilbane]

changing quotes my arse ? i have unfinished business with the irish team and its up to brian kerr !

Sounds to me like hes stirring it up again .

Leave sleeping dogs lie.

Why answer them questions in the interview at all the gob****e,
he knows how the papers will construe them..

[petef]

Cant see Kerr picking him to be honest.

[lopez]

Originally posted by PaulB
and how pray did you come to that conclusion ? Because he scored the goal agianst the Dutch ? Who created the goal, who was man of the match, selective fecken' memories you lot!

Who dragged us througha gainst cyprus. Who ran the show against portugal.

Get over your personal vendettas.

If you or Judas think that the Irish team was the one-man Judas show, you and him need to move into a sport more for your ego. Like boxing or golf or stock car racing where not one other person can impinge on your own ar*ehole inflated vanities. Football's a team sport, with the emphasis on TEAM. The sum of all it's parts even if they are all unequal.

If people can come out with ridiculous statements that it was Judas - and just Judas - that got us to Japan, then so can I claim it was Trigger - and only Trigger - that got us there by not missing that shot, unlike the missed penalty in Bucharest that was one of the differences between a place in France or a play-off defeat to Belgium. I didn't blame Judas for that mistake at the time, but hey for those that think he's one step down from God, then I've changed my mind.

Vendetta? Too right. You think the rest of us here would have walked out on our country for a foreign club? Be interesting to see the reaction from certain quarters if Judas had taken the thirty shekels of silver at the Stadio delli Alpi or the Bernabeu instead of the theatre of creams.

[Footie_Fan]

Originally posted by lopez
unlike the missed penalty in Bucharest that was one of the differences between a place in France or a play-off defeat to Belgium.

I think you will find Romania won that group by 10 points. Facts please not rubbish you have derived for your own "vendetta."

Originally posted by only1kilbane
The bloke has gone from a hero in my opinion to scum of the earth.

So he is worse than murderers, rapists etc? This is just some of the ridiculous torrent of abuse you and others have been directing at the man who:

Drove us on to the World Cup with amazing individual displays in the qualifiers.
Played with an injury in the first leg against Iran.
Got the players moved from economy to business class on the planes.
Tried, in vein, to reform McCarthy's shambles of a setup. Even invited the man to his house.
Unfortunately it all got the better of him Saipan. He was wrong to attack the manager in such a public and vicious way but McCarthy was wrong to have a public meeting about him, when all Roy spoke to the papers was the truth about the joke that was the FAI and therefore McCarthy's setup in Saipan.
Our midfield has never been the same since...Basel.
February 2003 his career hanging in the balance he tells Kerr he won't be playing on medical grounds.
February 2004 fully recovered through some serious rest and recurperation and a terrible end to the 2003 season he wants back. The man deserves to play, he was sent home from the World Cup he didn't leave. While Roy is not without sin, McCarthy was the villian here.

[Declan_Michael]

What choice did McCarthy have but to call a meeting the squad. It affected all them.

Anyway, that is dead and buried now.

Don't care what Keane did in the past, don't care about his 58 caps. People like Staunton, 102 caps and Quinn record goalscorer are true Irishman.

As far as I am concerned Keane never played for Ireland he embarassed the country.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by Conor74

Or, CLAIMED he had a serious injury injury. Later plays a CL game and it is leaked by McCarthy that his omission was prearranged.

The one thing I find unforgivable is that he played a full 90mins against none other than Leicester City in the Eng Prem just two days after our game in Tehran.

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Beavis
The one thing I find unforgivable is that he played a full 90mins against none other than Leicester City in the Eng Prem just two days after our game in Tehran.

Are you sure? From memory the next match was the famous Middlesbourgh match that Keane walked out on watching from the stands.

[lopez]

Originally posted by Footie_Fan
I think you will find Romania won that group by 10 points. Facts please not rubbish you have derived for your own "vendetta."

If you were around at the time you would remember that there were X amount of teams in the playoffs, plus one team automatically through as best second place team (Scotland). Guess who narrowly missed out on that elusive best second place?

As I said, no one blamed Judas at the time - I think it was a case of needing to turn just one of our home draws (Iceland, Romania or Lithuania) into a victory, so that penalty was certainly not the crucial point. But if we are going to be forever in awe to Judas because of his performances - those that he could be bothered to turn up to - in one campaign, let's look at his whole record.

The rest of your drivel is suitably addressed by Conor. There is therefore nothing else to add.

[tiktok]

hmm...strange the way I keep getting drawn in.

Originally posted by Declan_Michael
What choice did McCarthy have but to call a meeting the squad. It affected all them.

The conditions affected them all but to this day I don't see anything wrong with what Keane said to Tom Humphries. McCarthy should have spoken to him privately. Regardless of what followed, McCarthy set out to belittle him at that meeting.

Originally posted by Slash/ED
Are you sure? From memory the next match was the famous Middlesbourgh match that Keane walked out on watching from the stands.

I'm very pro Keane, but he did play a full ninety minutes against Leicester on the following saturday, I'm 100% sure of that. But as was said earlier, he'd missed five weeks before the Iran game and he came back earlier than he had been advised, to play in the home leg. It was agreed with McCarthy ahead of time that he's only be risked for one of the matches, and at the time we were all relieved. It was only afterwards this 'faking injury' nonsense started up. His critics use it as evidence that he never really cared about playing for Ireland, which is complete rubbish, even the most ardent Keane hater should admit he always gave his all when weraing the Irish shirt.

Even though we approach this from more or less a polar opposite position, I'm agree a lot with Conor. Pretty convincing arguments can be made for both sides of this, and with the volumes that have been written we all have reams of info (fact and fiction) to draw from. It could go on ad nauseum but at the end of the day we need the line drawn under this now.

Briefly back to Saipan, to this day, and it's rarely mentioned in the rush to take sides, we'd all have been better off if McCarthy and Keane had both grown up and put their egos to one side for the duration of the WC, it's a shame some of those in the room, especially the senior players that day, hadn't seen the damage they both would do to our WC (which regardless of whatever spin anyone puts on it , was an unmitigated failure) and knock their heads together.

[lopez]

Originally posted by tiktok
...it's a shame some of those in the room, especially the senior players that day, hadn't seen the damage they both would do to our WC (which regardless of whatever spin anyone puts on it , was an unmitigated failure) and knock their heads together.

I think the Scots would have loved that sort of failure. Or maybe even the French...or Argentines.

[tiktok]

Originally posted by lopez
I think the Scots would have loved that sort of failure. Or maybe even the French...or Argentines.

I don't want to get too far off topic Lopez, but we should have aimed higher and done better at that World Cup, even without Keane. Screw the Scots, getting to the Finals shouldn't mark the end of the jouney anymore, it's that kind of thinking that lets us gloss over poor performances and turn out in our hundreds of thousands in Phoenix park to welcome back teams yet to match our first WC outing.

You talk about the French and the Argentinians who we got further than, Well I talk about the USA, Turkey, South Korea (ffs), Japan and (the worst I can remember) German sides who got further than us.

We drew with a mediocre (despite the pre-WC hype) Cameroon side which we should have thrashed. Drew with a brutal German side who had a wonderful keeper and little else and won our only game against the worst side at the tournament.

We were tactically inept in extra time against a Spanish side down to ten men and let them take us to penalties. A second round exit at that World Cup was a badly missed opportunity.