How depressing is the seeding news?

**Den Perry** · 30/09/2009, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tipp Townie

Indeed. Was about to say the same thing..

and you know what? If we played an away leg first and Irish fans were attacked, the opposition supporters would still get a warm welcome here in the return leg. Bloody sad!! Remember Russia a few years back?

**magnumpi** · 30/09/2009, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Greenbod

Don't understand all the uproar.

If we were good enough in the past, we'd be seeded and have no complaints.

If we're good enough now, we'll beat a seeded team in the play off.

If we were good enough during the group stage, we'd qualify without a play-off.

Any team that beats us in a play-off, deserves to qualify ahead of us....if we are good enough we'll qualify.

nonsense, it's the fact that it is only being announced NOW that creates the uproar. you could stomach it if you had known all along that this was the case....

**DeLorean** · 30/09/2009, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

If and when we finish 2nd, we will have finished 2nd as equals to all the other teams who finish 2nd.

Just playing the devil's advocate for a second but if all the 2nd placed teams are equal then theoretically, it shouldn't make a difference if there is seeding or not

Of course, we know this isn't the case.

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

it should have been clarified long before qualification started.

This is the big issue I feel really. If it was stated before the competition commenced that teams were being rewarded for higher placed rankings, then we couldn't have an issue with it really.

**MeathDrog** · 30/09/2009, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by magnumpi

nonsense, it's the fact that it is only being announced NOW that creates the uproar. you could stomach it if you had known all along that this was the case....

FIFA are in a way covering their arses by announcing it now. They can argue that they don't know who will be in the playoffs in any of the groups. But lets face it, they have a fair idea of who will be in each.

**MeathDrog** · 30/09/2009, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Just playing the devil's advocate for a second but if all the 2nd placed teams are equal then theoretically, it shouldn't make a difference if there is seeding or not

Of course, we know this isn't the case.
.

I know that like, but in terms of merit, all the teams who came 2nd are equal. Same way the 2 team who reach a final are deemed the 2 best teams in a tournament, but this isn't always true.

**DeLorean** · 30/09/2009, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

I know that like, but in terms of merit, all the teams who came 2nd are equal. Same way the 2 team who reach a final are deemed the 2 best teams in a tournament, but this isn't always true.

I wasn't overly serious really. It's really just the timing of the ruling that I have a major issue with though, although it would probably make more sense just to have an open draw anyway, when each team has reached a certain standard.

**MeathDrog** · 30/09/2009, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I wasn't overly serious really. It's really just the timing of the ruling that I have a major issue with though, although it would probably make more sense just to have an open draw anyway, when each team has reached a certain standard.

Aye I know what you meant like.

Yeah I agree with your point. An open draw would be the fairest way, but not necessarily the best way of making money for FIFA, so of course its never going to happen.

**geysir** · 30/09/2009, 1:50 PM

Did FIFA ever indicate that it would be an open draw? I don't remember seeing a FIFA statement on that.

**conorg** · 30/09/2009, 1:52 PM

Is there not an outside chance that we could be one of the seeded teams? e.g. if Sweden/Slovenia/Bosnia/Ukraine all finish second they are all ranked below us?

**DeLorean** · 30/09/2009, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Did FIFA ever indicate that it would be an open draw? I don't remember seeing a FIFA statement on that.

Don't know. I think it's fair to assume an open draw unless otherwise stated though, or at least it should be. In any well run competition the rules are decided beforehand, you don't just make them up as you go along.

**carloz** · 30/09/2009, 2:08 PM

Think UEFA did something similar for the playoffs to Euro 2000. Came out with this great idea to seed a few months before the playoff matches. There was uproar and they backed down, but then look at the draw that happened, as if by coincidence.

Scotland v England
Israel v Denmark
Slovenia v Ukraine
Ireland v Turkey

The four teams that would have been seeded were all kept away from each other, and all played away first. The hot balls trick was no doubt done here. UEFA/FIFA always get what they bloody want

**DeLorean** · 30/09/2009, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by carloz

Scotland v England
Israel v Denmark
Slovenia v Ukraine
Ireland v Turkey

Although the away teams do seem to be of a higher standard, I wouldn't have thought there would have been much advantage for UEFA having Ukraine there instead of Slovenia, Denmark instead of Ireland, etc?

**Leeside Swagger** · 30/09/2009, 2:39 PM

It was originally supposed to be an open draw but the prospect of Germany not qualifying swung the decision according to this:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0930/ireland.html

**geysir** · 30/09/2009, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Don't know. I think it's fair to assume an open draw unless otherwise stated though, or at least it should be. In any well run competition the rules are decided beforehand, you don't just make them up as you go along.

For this WC play off draw, I don't regard it as safe to assume it was going to be an open draw just because FIFA did not make it clear beforehand.

It was more likely that there would be repeat of what happened in the previous WC play off draw when FIFA rankings were used to seed the teams into 2 pots.

Afaia FIFA have not made a u-turn on this play off draw format.
People are confusing a hope that it would be an open draw with a (non-existing) FIFA statement on the matter

**eaststand85** · 30/09/2009, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by Leeside Swagger

It was originally supposed to be an open draw but the prospect of Germany not qualifying swung the decision according to this:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0930/ireland.html

"Irish fans would have been hoping for a kind draw against the likes of Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Bosnia or Slovakia, but that possibility now seems unlikely if FIFA stick to their guns."

I presume this is just wishful thinking on behalf of the person who wrote this article and there is no chance of FIFA not sticking to their guns considering Blatter has a neck like a jockey's nether regions? Certainly wouldn't appear that John Delaney is going to rock the boat!

FAI Chief Executive John Delaney remains optimistic about Ireland's chances in spite of the revised seeding system.

"Speaking in today's Irish Daily Mail, Delaney insisted: 'I'm not too sure where that [seeded draw] will place us but we've got concentrate first on what we've got to do.

'We've got to try and beat Italy and take it to the last game. And if we end up in the play-offs, we'd have been delighted to have got to the play-offs at the start of the group and we'll take what we get.'

He added: 'All I will say is that and team who finishes second mustn't have been top team in their group, obviously. So it gives you a chance.'"

**eaststand85** · 30/09/2009, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

For this WC play off draw, I don't regard it as safe to assume it was going to be an open draw just because FIFA did not make it clear beforehand.

It was more likely that there would be repeat of what happened in the previous WC play off draw when FIFA rankings were used to seed the teams into 2 pots.

Afaia FIFA have not made a u-turn on this play off draw format.
People are confusing a hope that it would be an open draw with a (non-existing) FIFA statement on the matter

Why then is every single news outlet saying FIFA originally planned to host an open draw? Doesn't really matter either way as the point most people appear to be making (and with which I agree) is that the draw arrangements should have been clarified before the group matches even got under way.

**DeLorean** · 30/09/2009, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Leeside Swagger

the prospect of Germany not qualifying swung the decision

I don't see anything to indicate this, am I missing something?

Originally Posted by geysir

For this WC play off draw, I don't regard it as safe to assume it was going to be an open draw just because FIFA did not make it clear beforehand.

It was more likely that there would be repeat of what happened in the previous WC play off draw when FIFA rankings were used to seed the teams into 2 pots

Yeah I meant that under normal circumstances you would assume that a scheduled playoff, amongst the 2nd placed teams, would be level playing field. Of course with FIFA/UEFA decisions in the past we didn't assume anything, I just meant the way it should be, not the way it actually is.

**Schumi** · 30/09/2009, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Den Perry

and you know what? If we played an away leg first and Irish fans were attacked, the opposition supporters would still get a warm welcome here in the return leg. Bloody sad!! Remember Russia a few years back?

What a ridiculous post. You think it'd be better if away fans coming here were attacked?

**geysir** · 30/09/2009, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by eaststand85

Why then is every single news outlet saying FIFA originally planned to host an open draw? Doesn't really matter either way as the point most people appear to be making (and with which I agree) is that the draw arrangements should have been clarified before the group matches even got under way.

That would be different than calling the decision a u-turn.

I don't know why some of the media outlets assumed the position that FIFA had made a decision on the format and now changed their minds.

I thought it was assumed we would be b�ggered.

**Greenbod** · 30/09/2009, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

If and when we finish 2nd, we will have finished 2nd as equals to all the other teams who finish 2nd. After that, there should be no seeding, and if there is, it should have been clarified long before qualification started.

And if like you say we're equal to all the other teams who finish 2nd, what's the problem? We have as good a chance against any of them. If there is seeding, what difference does it make whether announced now or a year ago?