I think this point has been rehearsed by others, but identity and loyalty for 2nd G Irish is not always that straight forward. Nolan's preferred position was to play for England, from which some have deduced that he "doesn't want to play for us" or has "no affinity with Ireland." Actually niether of these propositions is necessarily true. He did clearly want to play for us when the matter was investigated under STan and it was established that he was not at that time eligible. I know (through work0 someone who grew up with Nolan and knows the family. According to him he is typical "Liverpool Irish." Irishness and Catholicism are very much part of the identity of some of the communities in North Liverpool / Bootle / Huyton. It does not mean that he is naturally drawn to represent us as his first choice (or that he wants to become Pope), but there is an affinity and I dont think that selecting Nolan would be a embracing a treacherous mercenary.Originally Posted by Junior
He showed no interest when his eligibility was looked into back in McCarthy's days, he subsequently showed no interest again during Stan's reign, he's not Irish, being Catholic has nothing to do with being Irish, your friend from work obviously loves winding you up and once again he doesn't add anything extra to what we already have.
Fair enough response and I take on board your points on the Liverpool Irish factor - I dont know him or if he has any affinity with Ireland. Representing us in the Stan era was no doubt a fallback position though, no matter how you dress it up and that doesnt rest easy with me and that is coming from a 2g Irishman.
Last edited by Junior; 29/09/2009 at 3:14 PM.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
If he were to declare, fair enough.
I'm opposed to chasing anyone who hasn't stated quite clearly that they're Irish and want to play for Ireland.
Cork City: Making 'Dream Team' seem realistic since 2007.
You may be opposed to it and on principle you're probably right. However, if it wasn't for Jack Charlton hounding fellas like Houghton, etc. to play for their 2nd favourite country, we'd probably never have qualified for a major tournament, and I'm far more opposed to that.
From listening to interviews Aldo and Houghton did not have to be hounded to play for us. From what i can remember Nolan was hounded and had no desire to play for us.
Approached, hounded.....it's all in the wording really. Didn't Charlton go to watch Aldridge at Oxford and snapped up Houghton too while he was there? I'm not saying they weren't proud to play for Ireland or anything, just that a little bit of gentle persuasion didn't do us any harm.
They played for Charlton because he was such a legend, they would have played for Jamacia if he had asked them. Re: Nolan I think he just doesnt want to play for us, there was a similar situation with Dave Kitson a few years back. I seem to remember that he was eligible but he stated that he wasnt Irish and he wouldnt feel right representing us, fair enough really.
It did plenty of harm to our underage structure if you ask me.
I don't think it's too much to ask that the National Team is made up of players proud to be there rather than the best reject team we could cobble together.
Someone like Kitson mentioned above deserves more credit than Cascarino in my opinion.
Cork City: Making 'Dream Team' seem realistic since 2007.
Read carefully. The link is not between being Irish and being Catholic, its about the culture of certain communities in North Liverpool. If Nolan did not have Irish connections then he would not be eligible, but he does and he is! Not really sure why you are getting so wound up over this, but you are wrong on two counts. During the Stan episode it was down to eligibility, the FAI would not have explored this issue had Nolan been willing to consider playing for us. Secondly, I trust my colleague and on all the available evidence he knows a great deal more about Nolan than you do.
I don't know why you assume I'm getting wound up about this. You think it's worth considering Nolan (for the third time) - I don't. His eligbility was looked into under McCarthy's reign - he wasn't eligible then. His eligibility was looked into again under Stan's reign - Stan made it known he was interested in Nolan, Nolan made it know he wasn't interested in Ireland, it subsequently became known again he wasn't eligible. As you seem to have no konwledge of this, I'm doubtful to the assertion you have made in the last sentence of your post. BTW how big a Dutch community is there in Liverpool?
I would like to see evidence of Nolan's alleged "lack of interest" at the time of the Stan / FAI enquiry into eligibility. I would suspect that the Dutch community in Liverpool was slightly bigger than the Irish community in Gothenberg, and generally more civil as well.
Are you totally naive or on a wind up?
The point is, he has not expressed any interest at all, he did not take advantage of that window like Jon Macken
In all the 25 years the Nolan thread has been running, the closest we got to reading something about 'Nolan talking about declaring for Ireland' was an article Stutts cunningly posted, which hooked the board for a couple of hours on April 1st.
People are forgetting that Nolan was part of the Irish U18 squad under Brian Kerry. On the day of a game against England I think, he decided he did not want to represent the Republic of Ireland and asked to go home. I certainly don't hold it against him for wanting to represent the country of his birth but I think he made his decision then and the matter should have been closed then.
Always look on the bright side of life
Never heard that one before! If thats the case then really its the same as dave kitson. its pretty obvious he has no interest in us and why would he if he considers himself English, and if he did drop out of our underage setup for that reason then its to his credit.
Clinton Morrisson on the other hand...
I
did some research on this, he was called into the U18's under Kerr for a friendly VS Switerland
from http://www.kickinmagazine.ie/u18squad1392000.htm
but for some reason he didn't play, from http://www.kickinmagazine.ie/kevinnolan31102000.htmBolton's Kevin Nolan, Manchester United's Paul Tierney and QPR's Brian Fitzgerald have been called up for the first time
also from that link Allardyce is quoted as sayingBrian Kerr called Nolan up for Ireland's friendly game against the Swiss u18 team at the end of September. But the player did not get a chance to shine on the pitch so his options are still open
I know the lad and his dad would prefer that he played for England and they are well aware of the situation
AFAIK he asked not play and went back to his club.
Always look on the bright side of life
Allardyce has previous for pushing dual qualified kids towards England, he made Kilbane attend a youth or under 21's training camp while he was at Preston, Kilbane says he went along in his Ireland shirt. Players are worth more in England if there English internationals, no doubt about that. I wouldn't hold teh yout thing against Nolan, it's the fact that he had teh chance after that during the amnesty and didn't commit that I'd have an issue with.
I cant honestly remember what the terms of the initial amnesty were. I think it applied to players under the age of 21. I dont know whether he would have been covered by that amnesty or not, but it is the case that his eligibility was subsequently investigated by the FAI when Staunton was in charge and at that point he was not eligible. Dont think anyone has any doubts that for whatever reason (his father, Allardyce, his own sense of identity) his first preferance was England. In this sense he is probably not any different to Townsend, Aldridge, Robinson, Morrison etc etc. It is now the case that he is eligible, and unlikely to make it into the England setup (partly due to competition from other Irish qualified players like Noble and Milner). I just wonder whether our management has made any attempts to talk to Nolan and see whether he wishes to avail of his changed circumstances. I dont think we pay them to make value judgements about people's Irishness, their job is to improve the team and pick the best players.
The Football Association of Ireland
"The Football Association of Ireland is the governing body of football in Ireland. Our game is being developed and supported by the FAI and its associates; clubs, affiliates and leagues, in every townland, city street and community across Ireland, in line with our mission to foster, develop and promote football.
Our goal is to continue to increase participation in all sections of the community through our members, voluntary and executive, working with the many stakeholders who enjoy and support our sport."
No - nothing there about making "value judgements about people's Irishness".
Nothing there either about chasing Englishmen journeymen with Irish ancestry throughout their active playing careers until they get a yes.
You just need to accept that not everybody with a grain of Irish ancestry wants to play for Ireland. Let's focus on those that do, eh?
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