QuoteWell said stutts.
I used to say under Kerr and under Stan that there was nothing wrong with the team that a good central midfield wouldn't sort out. Now I think that we need a good full back pairing and a good central midfield pairing before we can be trusted to take teams on in "the right way".
I used to also say that we had some very good players and some who were good enough. Now I think we also have players who aren't even good enough. I think with the players available to us we should actually be worse than we were a few years ago.
Instead we are actually doing better than we were a few years ago. Why's that?
I'm glad we have a manager who is smart enough to recognise what we have and what we haven't got, who has a plan and doesn't go changing things on a whim, who eats our media for breakfast and who has the players believing in themselves and in him.
I myself like to think that Andy Reid's inclusion would make us more pleasing on the eye without sacrificing the pragmatism we play with. I also know that Trap knows a hell of a lot more about these things than I do. It ain't perfect but we're way better off than we have been.
This doesn't mean that I or anyone else can't continue to mark Trap's card and I'll be looking for continued signs of progress as there's no way am thinking that the job is as good as done, but as of late-September 2009 I'm happy with the way things are.
Well said stutts.
In Trap we trust
trap for taioseach! hed do a steady if unspectacular job! thats what ireland need across the board right now! he deserves his contract and he took a pay cut too
I wouldn't get too excited about the pay cut as a sign of anything.
Trap would revel in the perception that he would do it for the minimum wage if necessary.
Big gamble by the FAI with 1/2 of the salary obligations, Lansdowne Rd costs, 10 year tickets etc. while the LOI is tottering with the elegance of a street beggar.
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Agreed 100%
Best position we have been in since 2002 with arguably the poorest bunch of players since Eoin Hand's time
Fair Play died Nov 18th 2009, Stade Francais.
I think it's great news too. Trap didn't win the European cup with a bunch of amateurs, and he's made us respected, with a limited bunch of players. We've been closer to qualifying for the 1st time since 2002. His comments about Reid and Carsley make it look as if he's going to change his game plan now that we're there too, or at least is open to doing it.
We had a much better bunch of players in Eoin Hands time.
Charlton took over a squad which included Moran, Lawrenson, O'Leary, Hughton, McCarthy, Beglin, McGrath, Brady, Sheedy, Stapleton and Cas
In comparison to the opposing International sides of the time these were very good players.
What about since before Eoin Hand's time?
Given, Keane, Duff would have been a candidate (at least) for any XI in any generation of players we've put out. Finnan of a few years back too, and Richard Dunne would have got into the XI of most eras - certainly when we were picking the likes of Daish & Kernaghan. McGeady'd have been on the fringes I reckon.
Most of the other regular starters probably wouldn't have got near an Ireland starting XI since I started watching Ireland in the late-70s.
Edit: forgot about JO'S - he'd have been good enough for most teams of past eras.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 29/09/2009 at 10:52 AM.
Giles had some good players and some poor intl standard players to choose from.
Usually a team then, contained 2, 3 or 4 duds at intl. level.
The difference nowadays is with the squad depth, the sheer quantity of players available, playing at a decent average level.
bloody students... http://www.universityobserver.ie/200...ght-in-a-trap/
McCarthy was a journeyman, Beglin was effectively second choice at Liverpool, Stapleton was a goalscoring Gary Doherty (okay, maybe a slight disservice) and Casc.... well, his Celtic and Chelsea record speaks for itself. The bunch of players we have now includes Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff and Richard Dunne, as well as the absent Steven Ireland, who are as good as any of the players at Eoin's hand (boom boom).
The players we had were good, but not significantly better than what we have now. If we qualify for this world cup, the players we have now will be sepia tinged greats in twenty years as well, probably equally undeservedly.
I agree that Trap knows what he's doing. Clearly, the starting point had to be to make us more solid and less prone to mistakes. It's still a battle, but the central midfield in my opinion opitomises this new approach. He needed grafters and the creativity is in other positions. Its like LIverpool about 5 years ago. They werent easy on the eye but they began to get results, and over time the quality improves. They are still solid (generally), but its more creative than the Istanbul team. Its a ridiculous argument in the media that says we should be playing fancy/attractive football at this stage... I just dont get that. Its so completely naive... Maybe our style will approve with time but you have to start by just getting results...
Lets not forget Ronnie Whelan, another poncy midfielder
Beglin was effectively first choice for Liverpool, until he broke his leg.
And you can name 4 players in todays team who are as good at those players, which sorta proves my point.
Frank Stapleton played for Arsenal and Manchester utd and was one of Irelands best forwards ever.
Everything else you say is discredited by the above remark.
Great point on Stapo. but why stop there? Giles, Brady, O'Leary all useless.
The team that got through the '88 qualifiers to the Finals was basically Hand's squad, augmented by Houghton and Aldridge.
Woh! Lets call the ad hominem police! I did admit it was a disservice to the man, but our squad now is not as poor as some say and just by saying that someone played for certain clubs doesn't mean they are great.... I mean, lots of players currently play for Leeds who would never have got near the teams of old. Also, lets not forget the massive lack of other foreign imports in the English game back in the eighties. In effect, the best 100 British and Irish players were first team players in top ten clubs in England and to a lesser extent Scotland.... now, every club has more foreign players and the top B&I players are more spread out across top flight clubs rather than concentrated at five or six of the top flights but it doesn't mean they are worse than their predecessora.... Robbie Keane would certainly still be at Liverpool if Torres wasn't there. And also lets not forget the effect of nostalgia. The players then were not as magnificent as we like to remember. Would we even be having this discussion if Bulgaria hadn't lost to Scotland? Our current squad has plenty of decent players. It may not quite have the strength in depth that the older squad had but I don't think it is significant. I'm not anti-Trap and I think he is doing a great job and deserves this new contract but the allegation that he is operating with the worst Irish squad in a generation is a bit false.... I still think our first eleven is as good as any we've had, which is to say there are a one or two great players, a fair few decent players and then some who are there because there is nobody else.
Frank Stapleton was a very good player for Arsenal, Man Utd and Ireland.
He was a very good player in the era that he played in. Thats about as much as you can ask of a player.
I see by the size of your return post that you were stung by my remarks and correctly so.
Your credability took a dive with those remarks, I, yourself and everybody that reads them now doubts your bona fides
Tell you the truth, I saw the list of players you posted and was trying to discredit as many of them as possible.... I went too far on stapleton, but the rest hold up. You listed Tony (Top Flight Record, England and Scotland 110 games, 23 goals, aged 28-32, apparently a players peak) Cascarino, among others, as great players of his generation. Yeah. Right. He was the Clinton (15 in 88 PL games) Morrison of his generation.Frank Stapleton was a very good player for Arsenal, Man Utd and Ireland.
He was a very good player in the era that he played in. Thats about as much as you can ask of a player.
I see by the size of your return post that you were stung by my remarks and correctly so.
Your credability took a dive with those remarks, I, yourself and everybody that reads them now doubts your bona fides
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