exactly - draw the best result.Originally Posted by DeLorean
6 points from two games with Bulgaria drawing with Italy will be enough to top the group as well though
6 points from two games with Bulgaria drawing with Italy will be enough to top the group as well though
exactly - draw the best result.6 points from two games with Bulgaria drawing with Italy will be enough to top the group as well though
Fair enough, but if Bulgaria beat Italy and we know that all we really have do is the same, and if we don't beat Italy at home then maybe Trappatoni's selection is just not good enough for WC 2010.6 points from two games with Bulgaria drawing with Italy will be enough to top the group as well though
F(uk this scraping through competitions
A Bulgaria win puts us under massive pressure against Italy. If both us and Bulgaria get 20 points I see it as very likely their GD would be better than ours, so even a draw against Italy would not be a good result in Croker.
An Italy win over Bulgaria takes away our chance of winning the group but gives us bail out option of second place.
So basically you're saying that you'd prefer us to be in a position where failure to beat Italy will result in elimination? sorry but this makes no sense to me.
Souness did the other night, I can see both sides, I can see what he brings but he also frustrates me greatly, in the flesh and on tv.
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There are quite a few midfielders in the world that manage to defend and pass in the same match.
I don't watch enough English football to be able to say whether Andrews or Whelan are individually underperforming, but as a unit they aren't doing what a midfield should do and neither of them can grasp the game by the neck. You say its tactics, but even Trapp conceded in the post match interview that the passing wasn't what it should be.
I clearly referred to the second half when I mentioned Whelan and Andrews
so I did not get your reference to them nullifying our attack play in a second half context.
Ireland dominated the second half. Andrews and Whelan nullified most of the attacking threat coming through CM.
Trap said he blasted the team at ht also he was referring to the first half play when he mentioned anxiety, fear and passing ability.
'tis a game of 2 halves.
Everyone knew this was going to be tight. We got the result in the end. Not making excuses but its a very difficult place to go to. Poor crowd, very humid conditions, etc... The world champions also recently scrapped a 2-1 win in Cyprus aswell so I am delighted with the result and performance.
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Whelan and Andrews were equally poor in both halves IMO.
Not sure we had a better combination available for selection, but they are the reason we are forced to play it long.
I don't have much time for Souness generally but on Saturday night I don't think he questioned Robbie's effort. What he did say was that Robbie should try to hold onto the ball rather than trying to flick it on (the hollywood stuff he called it). I can understand that opinion but it certainly didn't reflect on Robbie's effort.
"There's man all over for you, blaming on his boots the fault of his feet" - Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot
Trap would argue that playing it safe and long in the 2nd half was a successful tactic in that game, against that team. The result proves the method. A player like Andy Reid would likely have been swallowed up by the constant closing down. I doubt if any other team in the last 5 years visiting Cyprus enjoyed such dominance in the 2nd half.
According to the game plan, Whelan and Andrews did their job well in the second half.
About the only I threw a curse against Whelan was when he wasted a ball in injury time, giving them one more fling.
That's my recollection too. No criticism of effort at all.
He made a very good interception in injury time, making a left footed volleyed clearance into touch.
I watched the match on the Setanta pay-per-view and the picture quality was actually pretty good. The benefit of this system is I've been able to watch the game several times now.
I cannot get over how much time on the ball the Cypriots had. Chirilambidas was able to receive the ball hold it and turn 45 degrees in either direction and decide to where he wanted to spray a pass. Whelan and Andrews were unable to keep the ball for more than a split second before either passing sideways or ballooning the ball forward through the air.
I was terribly alarmed at this when watching the live stream, but watching it again, I don't think we will be that bad in the next fixtures. The Cypriots clearly knew the limitations of the pitch on which they were playing; I think the heavily sanded pitch with its divots made passing the ball with any real pace harder for us than it did for them. As a consequence of our slower passes the Cypriot midfielders had more time to close down our players particularly Whelan and Andrews who do not have the first touch of some of the classy midfielders who fulfill the same role in the world's top sides.
Our run-in for this group is at home. Therefore (although you never know with Croker) the pitch should only be a positive factor. I missed the Montenegro game entirely and I have not seen them play since it was Serbia and Montenegro so I cannot comment on their style, but the Italian team does not close down as much as Cyprus.
Italy's performance in Georgia was poor enough and I think Trapattoni will be prepared better to face Italy than any other sides.
The other thing is a return of Steven Reid and Stephen Finnan could genuinely change our side for the better. I am not holding my breath on both of them being available, but either one offers a new dimension to the team.
I am on the record on this site as not being Finnan's biggest fan, but my admiration for him even at 33 years of age has grown in his absence. Finnan is probably the best crosser of the ball this team has available. If our central midfielders are told to play conservatively a full back with great defensive pedigree, a classy touch and a good cross could be the difference in a tight game.
Steven Reid's contribution has been outlined enough times. He has a Rolls-Royce engine, determination, bite and he grabs games by the b@lls.
Dare to dream the futures green..
"No regrets, none at all. My only regret is that we went out on penalties. That's my only regret. But no, no regrets." -Mick McCarthy
Souness was right and he wasn't commenting on effort just on decision making. And he was right. Not just holding the ball up, but on a couple of occasions Robbie could have ran more with the ball instead of lookng for incisive passes when the target was surrounded.
Souness nailed it also when looking at John O’Shea’s performance i.e. when playing with Man U, he’s got Scholes or Carrick etc. showing for the ball in midfield, whereas Ireland don’t have anyone showing to take the ball and move it forward so O’Shea hoofs the ball up the pitch. Well, we do have someone who would show and move the ball forward…Andy Reid.
Someone else made the point that an attacking midfielder would be a danger Trappatoni wants to avoid, perhaps he was right, but I don’t think so. Anyway, at this stage it really is too late to find out.
I still refuse to believe these long balls weren't down to tactics. The midfielders push up when the defenders have the ball because that's what they're told to do. We've seen a completely different side to Whelan and Andrews in Italy. The vast majority of passes in that game were between Dunne, O'Shea, Whelan and Andrews while McShane didn't misplace a single pass.
Whatever Trap says it's tactics pure and simple.
Agree with this but my fear is that John O'Shea was hoofing the ball up the pitch because he was told to rather than because the midfield didn't want it. I suspect this would still be the case if Andy Reid was on the pitch. In Jack's time we had Ronnie Whelan and Liam Brady who would happily have taken the ball off the full-backs or the centre-halves but they were told to hit it into the channels. Mark Lawrenson had a good piece in today's paper explaining how the approach then was more effective than the long-balls we saw on Saturday.
I agree Robbie's decision making isn't always the best but my point was that his effort cannot be questioned.
"There's man all over for you, blaming on his boots the fault of his feet" - Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot
Did anybody notice the complete absence of Hamilton's curse?
The poor man's absolute predictive assuredness has taken a hammering over recent years and reduced him to the level of a mere mortal fan during a game, living under the fear that anything bad can happen anytime.
As soon as play restarted after the goal I shouted at the telly for George to say nothing!
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